SWB0 The Flying Dutchman

[BartRidesEternal]

We were all suspended seeing that video I imagine

This gives me a feel like I want to build a wooden bike. Away with #steelisreal..... what about #woodisgood?!


Love the curves and the dimples there. Every step and picture is a treat.
A true 'dynamic furniture' builder

Allright, I'll do me best to stop with the dry jokes..... dry as wood...

 

[The Renaissance Man]

I'm doing what I like to call Guessineering. I'm not worried about breaking them, right now I'm more worried that I'm not going to get enough flex out of this setup. They don't flex nearly as much as I was envisioning.

That is what I was getting at. My thought was to make a rough test set up to see what it would take to get the amount of flex that you're looking for. That way if you go to the point of breaking it, you wouldn't loose the beautiful work that you have already done.

I have no doubt that you are fully competent to pull this off without any outside guidance though! I'm just having fun building it in my head along the way. lol Keep it up!

 

[VelolFellow]

This looks a lot like the work coach builders used to do back in the horse and buggy days.

 

[bikewhorder]

I'm coming to the sad realization that I miscalculated the strength of the wood. Without dramatically changing the whole desig which I don't want to do, I'm basically not going to get the suspension effect that I was after on this build. I was thinking I could remove material to get the amount flex I was after but the problem is, while the wood doesn't want to bend it does seem to easily twist which is obviously not a desirable characteristic. If I make it flexy it will also be super wonkie side to side. I thought about adding pivots and springs but that's not the clean look I was going for. I'm sure the wood will provide plenty of vibration dampening, but that's going to be about it.

 

[Captain Awesome]

Carbon or fiberglass “core” to the pieces?

Split them, router a recess, fill with the core material, rebond the halves?

 

[Captain Awesome]

Just throwing ideas at the wall

 

[bikewhorder]

Just throwing ideas at the wall

Yeah, I've been thinking about it, but.
the problem is with a typical suspension you have rigid parts with pivots and springs of some sort and the motion is controlled. When
the members of the frame are designed to also be the suspension It's difficult to control the motion. It's hard to make something that's flexible enough in one direction, but rigid in another. The wood is strong enough that you could totally make a full suspension bike out of it, but you would have to do it in a more conventional fashion. I thought I could use the springiness of the wood to create the suspension but it's not that simple. I've made my peace with it.It will be much simpler Without all the pivots and just as beautiful, I just won't have much travel. A few millimeters.

 

[SwissGuy]

If it's steel or wood you're building with, the old saying stays the same:
Listen to the bike! It will tell you which direction it will need you to go with it!

 

[The Renaissance Man]

How much flex do you get with just the top support? If it will flex, you could then slot the lower half of the seat post and put a roller on the lower bolt to serve as a guide. The bottom support would not move, while the top flexes.

 

[bikewhorder]

How much flex do you get with just the top support? If it will flex, you could then slot the lower half of the seat post and put a roller on the lower bolt to serve as a guide. The bottom support would not move, while the top flexes.

I don't quite follow what you're saying here but I was thinking along the same lines with the fixed part/flexing part. For the seat post, I was thinking I could just put pivots in the front and Install curved fiberglass leaf springs underneath. And for the wheels I could chop away one of the curved laminations and attach a pivot arm at the rear of the fixed element to keep the flexing part stable. I did a drawing but it's kind of ugly and not the vision I have in mind for this bike. I can see it very clearly and I want to make what's in my head. Also this is what happens to me every time I try to build this bike. One idea leads to another and pretty soon I realize what I should have done and I just want to toss out the whole thing and start over. I love the engineering and design part of this but at the end of the day it's all about making something that looks beautiful. Besides there's really nothing wrong with a rigid bike.

 

[The Renaissance Man]

Besides there's really nothing wrong with a rigid bike.

That was actually what I was thinking but I didn't want to say it. It seemed like you were bummed about losing the spring action.

I can further expound on my previous thought, but it depends on whether or not you are achieving the flex out of the top piece without the bottom piece attached.

 

[bikewhorder]

That was actually what I was thinking but I didn't want to say it. It seemed like you were bummed about losing the spring action.

I can further expound on my previous thought, but it depends on whether or not you are achieving the flex out of the top piece without the bottom piece attached.

No they're both surprisingly rigid. I think it would break before It flexed very much.

 

[curtisfox]

I say get this done and built bfore you change your mind again, how you going to learn form your mistakes if you don't finish. You might be suprised ........Curt

 

[BartRidesEternal]

I don't quite follow what you're saying here but I was thinking along the same lines with the fixed part/flexing part. For the seat post, I was thinking I could just put pivots in the front and Install curved fiberglass leaf springs underneath. And for the wheels I could chop away one of the curved laminations and attach a pivot arm at the rear of the fixed element to keep the flexing part stable. I did a drawing but it's kind of ugly and not the vision I have in mind for this bike. I can see it very clearly and I want to make what's in my head. Also this is what happens to me every time I try to build this bike. One idea leads to another and pretty soon I realize what I should have done and I just want to toss out the whole thing and start over. I love the engineering and design part of this but at the end of the day it's all about making something that looks beautiful. Besides there's really nothing wrong with a rigid bike. View attachment 288624

Nothing wrong with a rigid bike when its that beautiful.

I wonder if you can 'hollow' out one side (back for example) of one wooden section that goes to the seat and put a leaf spring in there. Or put a leafspring in both wooden sections that go to the seat. A floating seat if you will.

 

[bikewhorder]

Nothing wrong with a rigid bike when its that beautiful.

I wonder if you can 'hollow' out one side (back for example) of one wooden section that goes to the seat and put a leaf spring in there. Or put a leafspring in both wooden sections that go to the seat. A floating seat if you will.

Yes that's kind of what I was drawing above but it gets complicated. I would definitely have to make them pivot somehow Moving parts are always difficult. It's definitely not impossible but I thinkI need to just stick with this design as drawn and not try to change it too much. One of the design themes of this build was "clean and simple". If I try to pile on too much engineering , it will lose that.

 

[Pondo]

Yes that's kind of what I was drawing above but it gets complicated. I would definitely have to make them pivot somehow Moving parts are always difficult. It's definitely not impossible but I thinkI need to just stick with this design as drawn and not try to change it too much. One of the design themes of this build was "clean and simple". If I try to pile on too much engineering , it will lose that.

I try to use the KISS method but it somehow never goes that way. I’m really loving this build, it’s such a cool design and really fun to see it coming together

 

[BartRidesEternal]

I try to use the KISS method but it somehow never goes that way. I’m really loving this build, it’s such a cool design and really fun to see it coming together

KISS method

 

[bikewhorder]

Well I was hoping to have a lot of visible progress after this weekend. That's not really the case, but I did get a lot of work done. I have all of the lumber milled and tapered now. And all of the frame molds are made. Hopefully I can pick away at it this week and get a bunch of laminations glued up in my evenings after work. The biggest achievement was just making choices. I re-drew the curves for the hundredth time. I reduced the space between the down tube in the front wheel that I had put in there to accommodate the travel of the "suspension fork". I like the low and lean look better and now that i'm going with a fairly rigid design It simplifies a lot of things.

 

[bikewhorder]

There's one quarter of the down tube glued up. I have to build that tube in quadrants. This is the one area of the bike where i'm going to "cheat" a little bit on my design theme. I need to open up the space where the bottom bracket shell goes. The theme of the bike is to have all the mechanical stuff attach in between the veneered layers into the center core layer. I don't want to have any interruptions in the veneered outer layers so I need to spread it apart here in the shadded area on the drawing and i'm going to probably fill that area in with some wood laminations. .

 

[bikewhorder]

It's hard to resist the urge not to try to get a sneak peak of the form.