THE FUTURE OF RRB

[Rat Rod]

Don't worry...that was just to get your attention. :lol:

It's been six years now since the forum was started and it's been a fun, creative ride so far. I'm grateful to all of the folks who have made the site what it is today....a cool place to hang out and share about bikes. I'm also grateful for the Moderators who volunteer their time to keep things running smoothly and spam free. Without them this place would be a mess for sure. I'm also thankful for everyone here who makes an effort to be respectful and encouraging towards others.

Over the past six years we've had 7 build offs and several other competitions that have really displayed the talent that exists in this group of folks. I've tried to keep things interesting over the years and we've made changes to accomodate what the user wants in an online community. I've always tried to look at things from the angle that this place is for you so I need to do what I can to make you enjoy the site.

I've offered five or six shirt designs, head badges, name plates and decals and folks have been kind enough to support the site by purchasing these items over the years. While it does take a lot of work to pull this off, it's all worth it when I see people wearing and displaying their items with pride. I do make s little off of this, but once you consider the time an energy put into it all, it comes out about even.

As of late I've really felt like it would be great if one day I could somehow turn this wacky two wheeled fantastical experiment into a full-time income for me and my family. The thought of being able to give this community my full attention and energy work-wise is something I've desired for quite a while now. My problem is that I just don't know that it would ever be possible for me to come up with a business model in this market to be able to support a family of five. I've always just considered it to be a pipe dream.

It's funny because over the years I've shared with friends in the web design business my traffic stats for the site and they've all been shocked by the amount of people visiting the site each month. They all usually make some comment about how I should be making some decent income off of this site by now. I always laugh and tell them that I created a website for people who pick stuff out of the trash. :lol:

The site has over 11,000 members, the email newsletter goes out to over 12,000 email addresses, the Facebook page just crossed the 7000 "Like" mark and we average between 60k - 70k different people visiting the site every month. :shock: The average time spent by someone on the forum is about 6-10 minutes. Those numbers may not be anywhere near as impressive as some of the MTB or Car forums out there, but they aren't anything to sneeze at either from a marketing perspective.

I've had ideas of selling parts or bikes with the RRB brand, but the start up cost and logistics have always been so prohibitive. I've also considered coming out with a full line of shirt designs that would include several styles and designs, but I'm not sure that would create enough interest to make it worth the effort. I've even thought of offering some kind of special annual membership option that would give the user special privileges and rewards, but again, not really sure that people here would be willing to go for that.

The truth is, most communities like this end up making their money off of advertising. Out of all the advertisers I've had on the site over the years, two of them were paid advertisers. All of the rest have traded product for banner time. I'm not complaining about that one bit, it's been an incredible perk that I have loved, but it just wouldn't pay the bills if I tried to do this full-time. This also brings with it a level of frustration when an advertiser doesn't follow through with keeping the customer happy. It ends up reflecting poorly on me for promoting their business. It's so hard to know who's a flake out there these days and who isn't.

So, I'm sort of turning this around on the members. If you owned this community and wanted to take it to the next level, what would you do? Maybe it's just not a reality that a community focused on custom and vintage bikes would ever generate enough income to support someone...that may be the answer, and if so, I'm cool with that. I just hate to think that there's something more or better I could be doing to really make the most of this adventure.

I look forward to hearing what some of you have to think. :wink:

 

[furyus]

I don't have the answer you're looking for, man. Feeding one person off of a web forum, let alone a family of five (with three of them expecting college and Corvettes, I assume) is a tall order. I can say, though, that RRB is well-run, friendly, interesting and has an uber-clean design - you've done a great job. Poke around the HAMB a bit, and check out how there is a whole "family" of forums going on over there, maybe you could do the same. RRB is THE place to go online for rat rod bikes. Lots of other bicycling sub-cultures out there - put 'em all under one roof.

Thanks for your efforts, Steve.

furyus

 

[udallcustombikes]

Steve-
I have said it many times before and I cannot say it enough- Thank you for the time and effort that you have put into this place we can all hang out.

Like you I have always wanted to turn this hobby into something more. I consider myself fortunate to make it through a build without tapping into family money. I also have a family of five so there isn't a lot of family money to spare for my hobby.

As far as using the forum to it's most financially, I cannot help. I know nothing about business. I really took pride in the auction bike I assembled with the help of my fellow members. I know it didn't set you up for a cushy retirement, but I hope it helped a little. I like the idea of an "elite" membership, but I wouldn't know what that would look like. I don't want to exclude anyone from buying and selling here like I have seen on my Chevy forum.

No matter what you decide, I will be right here. This is my home on the interwebs. My brother's and sisters make it a place where I enjoy hanging out.

 

[matco]

I have been a silent bob sort of visitor for several years on this site, I hardly ever post anything, but really enjoy the postings made by others. I especially enjoy/appreciate the family friendly atmosphere and have even shown this site to students in my science classes at school. My science club has built bikes twice in the last 2 years and I rode last school year's bike in Omaha's cinco de mayo parade.

After reading your future of the site posting, I did a little brainstorming about what might make you a few bucks. How hard would it be to use your designs on a site like cafepress? They print on demand and you could expand the categories of gear that you've made available. Look at the stores on sites like pauljrdesigns.com and other hot roddish type sites to see what people are buying.

Find someone with a CNC machine and make ratrodbikes chainrings and other parts that you could mark up a profit on. Do something like Ichi Bikes and get a signature part like their recycled skateboard seat going, maybe a ratrodbikes signature springer or something along those lines.

How about some ratrodbikes tire decals! http://tirestickers.com/tire_decals.html

Keep up the good work here, and in the words of some guy on this forum, Get ta designin!

 

[Black Crown Tattoo]

I honestly think all of the above is the answer!! Bringing together a community of people in a vast growing market of something that no longer re generates itself is a vary commendable thing I don't think people take lightly....I'm also a young business owner with visions...a wise man once told me that nothing free is worth having....you seem like a very smart guy so I'm pretty sure you have put a lot of thought in how to make you pipe dream a huge success! Nothing for free is worth having! That's truth! I would say between monthly /annual fee to be a member, shirts, stickers, advertisers and a sort of street team...sponsored bike clubs? That's the ticket....one selling point on a reason that being a paid member is a good thing is the deals in witch you get from being a member of this community it the for sale and trade sections...the real players on this forum will stay and quality over quantity! If the lookie loos wanna leave let em!!! There learning from a lot of people's hard work and never giving back! I've learned a lot being here...I try to give back! It's like teaching someone a new trade and never seeing what they learned! Almost not worth showing them! I'm all for giving but a constant recycling of info in a community of knowledgeable people is way cooler! The money on witch people make selling through your site on some things is insane! Some is a hook up and builds great relationships within our growing community cool...but when someone sells a bike for 1,200 and you see nothing off all you have done...thats a little much!!! You deserve more being the leader and head of this place! The money we save by posting parts and bikes here as apose to spending top dollar on eBay could make up for membership costs! This trade/hobby is growing...a t.v. Show based on custom bicycles???? It's next! Cut a small break for members who advertise! Monthly charge to be a member in all sections...with the amount of members that will stay even a low fee will profit! And you deserve it! Small percent for items u sell and some good sponsorship to rat rod bike shops and all off the above things you listed are a good place to start....this is your world! A growing hobby and u need to profit! I will stand by and I think all a membership will do is drive out window shoppers....no one is gonna get rich but we can grow bigeye with quality people who love this hobby! Nothing free is worth anything! All your ideas are great and I back a small fee system that gets adjusted accordingly and if what your searching for in us is people who will say we got you and are willing to pay to stay you got it!!! This is the best bike forum on the net and we owe it to you!!!

 

[deven_science]

First let me say, I love this site. It's one of only three or four that I MUST visit daily.

As to some practical tips for turning this empire into a bit of money, I don't have anything major, but a couple of things may put in a buck or two.

I would definitely look into more clothing/merchandise. I think you're smart not to flood the site with too many options, but three or four T-shirt design choices, plus a hoodie or two would be good. I haven't bought a T yet, because I'm waiting for just the right design, but I will when it comes up. Maybe the designs can reflect some of the different angles of the community for variety? A BMX shirt, a rat hoodie, and a patinaed rust-bucket panel shirt would appeal to those that lean in those directions. Maybe commission someone who works in leather to make some Rat Rod biker wallets?

How about a monthly raffle? Anyone who donates a dollar to the site each month goes into a drawing for a prize! Start off with a T or something, but if you got more donations then you thought you would, the prizes could get bigger. Bikes, parts, etc. You could even raffle off ideas, such as donate a buck, and describe a build off competition that hasn't been done yet. A raffled random winner gets their idea implemented, and a site supported build off would begin based on the winner's criteria.

Some sites also have podcasts, and are using those in different ways to try and generate money.

I think I've done my share. Someone else's turn.

 

[CRASH]

Steve, I'm a newb here by several standards, but I have also made this site a daily... sometime hourly visit. I feel like I'm going to miss something important if I don't check the For Sale section all the time! :lol:

The only thing I can suggest is to turn the For Sale section into a members only bidding arena. Like RRB is it's own niche auction house. If a seller puts up an item and it generates no interest it won't cost him anything. But if the item sells, then RRB would somehow get a small percentage of that. Yes, like Ebay. I don't know the magic numbers. I know when I pay my ebay fees I scowl, but I think if you kept the fees low, the bidding easy, and kept it for members only, that could be something. But, maybe there are deeper legal issues that would make it more difficult than it is worth.

 

[scrumblero]

I'm no marketing expert... but I know a couple.. :mrgreen:

I'll see what they say...

 

[kingfish254]

I am as good as anyone at turning Fred Sanford Dollars into real dollars, but I am clueless on how to make more money from a web forum like RRB.

I know bikeforums.net charges a minimal fee of $12/year for their Premium Membership and you have to have a Premium Membership to be able to post in the Classified section.

 

[aka_locojoe]

Seriously I wouldn't quit your day job. As great and as busy as this site is, I in no way can imagine a way that a site like this could generate enough income to solely support 1 person let alone 5. Even if you sell shirts, bikes, bike parts whatever. I know money can be made through the advertising but I can't imagine it matching your current salary. I don't see any kind of subscription service or fees for doing this or that working at all. People will say "oh yeah I'd be willing to pay..." but I wouldn't count on it. Things could go South in a heartbeat. What will you do once all the old bikes have been found and restored and ratted and we've all moved on to something else?
I can see the site providing supplemental income. If it were me I'd sneak in some Google Adsense for a little extra spending money and try to be content with that and the gratification of knowing I've created something that so many people want to be a part of.

Sorry to be the male equivalent of a Debby Downer .

 

[user 135]

I brought this up once before......

I think you with some help should create a RRB Blog/site similar to the other blog/sites with a team of contributors. Have specific topics: New bikes(cruiser/bmx), tech/repair, reviews, RRB threads. essays..etc.. Online Magazine of sorts.

Similar to http://www.bikecommuters.com/ or http://urbanvelo.org/ or Bikehugger.com

This type exist for every type of cycling but cruiser/bmx. This would be a big undertaking but may payoff. This style of site lends itself to more advertising and product reviews. The contributors would need some compensation (swag from reviews or $/per article) . k

Also I think a store with some cruiser parts(RRB branded)? might be cool. With hard to find or out of production parts like Porkchop or Velo Orange has done. RRB handles the store front and somebody else(PorkChop) handles production and distribution. Or license the RRB name to others.

With all that said- Don't quit your day job. Those suggestions would allow this site to get bigger and create some steady income, but not create a sole income.

There are some books being written on this thread.

 

[Verrt]

If you can figure out a way to get your 11,000 members to pay you an average of $5 a year for some kind of service, you're on an income of over $50k.

You'd be the best judge of if that's enough.

 

[jwm]

Another blog I visit uses a service called Zazzle. It's a small, unobtrusive ad on the sidebar, and you get a cut of the merchandise they sell.

As far as other merchandise, there is Kickstarter to raise money for start-up expenses. Alan Cole Discount of Cycles US used Kickstarter to fund production of his new suspension cruiser. I bought one.

JWM

 

[udallcustombikes]

Since Kickstand has dropped the ball there is a need for a traditional magazine geared to the cruiser/rrb community. Again I have no knowledge on the publication biz, but I am always interested in learning something new. I think we have enough folks in the brain trust here to get something like that off the ground.

 

[Verrt]

Since Kickstand has dropped the ball there is a need for a traditional magazine geared to the cruiser/rrb community. Again I have no knowledge on the publication biz, but I am always interested in learning something new. I think we have enough folks in the brain trust here to get something like that off the ground.

Do NOT go into print publication right now.
I work at a newspaper, so far in the last 12 months I've been through three rounds of lay offs.
It's like this all over. Globally.

 

[Terry66]

I know bikeforums.net charges a minimal fee of $12/year for their Premium Membership and you have to have a Premium Membership to be able to post in the Classified section.

Maybe it is just me, but that always seemed odd. Charging a premium to sell items seems there would be way less items for sale, meaning the "for sale" forum would become less of a draw to the site. I would think the for sale forum is probably one of the primary reasons people come to the site in the first place.

 

[jackdaw]

How do any forum sites make money? I'm actually asking, not rhetorically. Advertising of course but what else?

I subscribe to Dirt Rag at $19.95 a year and Bicycle Times at $16.95 a year. That's for 12 or so issues, versus twenty minutes every day with RRB.
( Now I feel like a cheap something-or-rather :lol: ) I dunno, I'd pay a subscription. But I'm a D.I.N.K. (dual income no kids) and $13 an hour.

I'd also buy more merchandise, I like hoodies and someone mentioned a chainwheel!! OOH YEAS!!

I look at the For Sale section but rarely buy. And no one wants my GT mags .

I duuno Steve. I hope that you can figure it out. I love this sight, Thank you so much.

 

[KZ1000]

offer your T-Shirts in other colors besides black.

 

[Terry66]

offer your T-Shirts in other colors besides black.

Whoa....I never knew tshirts came in any color other than black :shock: :lol:

Seriously though Steve...I had been tossing around the idea of clothing for the rat rod kulture. I mean it doesn't have to be specifically RRB mechandise, but that would certainly be a good thing. Tshirts, hoodies, beanies, etc. (sorry KZ1000, but black is the new black in the rat rod world!) You seem to have a talent for design, so play on that. You could even offer up higher end rat bikes as a "signature series". Maybe work with Ichi bikes, or some of the top builders on here (think Carlton and Maux Faux!) and have them build a RRB signature bike. Maybe one in time for Christmas and then one in the spring? Then auction the bike off with the site getting a consignment fee (15-20%). I don't know, but I think merchandising is big....

 

[jerrykr]

Seriously I wouldn't quit your day job. As great and as busy as this site is, I in no way can imagine a way that a site like this could generate enough income to solely support 1 person let alone 5. Even if you sell shirts, bikes, bike parts whatever. I know money can be made through the advertising but I can't imagine it matching your current salary. I don't see any kind of subscription service or fees for doing this or that working at all. People will say "oh yeah I'd be willing to pay..." but I wouldn't count on it. Things could go South in a heartbeat. What will you do once all the old bikes have been found and restored and ratted and we've all moved on to something else?
I can see the site providing supplemental income. If it were me I'd sneak in some Google Adsense for a little extra spending money and try to be content with that and the gratification of knowing I've created something that so many people want to be a part of.

Sorry to be the male equivalent of a Debby Downer .

I hate to say it, but I have to agree with what Randy sez. You may get 70K hits, but I only see what,? a 100 maybe 200 different people posting here on any regular basis. As far as membership goes, I suspect these people would be your only real target audience, and what's to keep them subscribing year after year? I would pay, myself, I just don't think 1000's would. Facebook makes millions, but I think the difference is that a larger percentage of their claimed membership, actually use the site on a daily basis. And I think Facebook will jump the shark in a year or two.

That said, I may be wearing creative blinders, and I would not like to in any way discourage you from your dream. It's a Great goal to have. You've done a fantastic job so far. Keep it up!