Triple Red and Yellow Band Rebuild- Questions, Answers, Pics

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I have printed out the tech documents from the Hub Service Diagrams thread for my Kick Back hub, but I was wondering if there was a thread covering a rebuild with some better pics and average Joe language. Or another place I can find to talk me back together. :? :roll: :?
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EDIT: Since there isn't a thread already, here it is. See below for the rebuild.
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

***EDIT: Better pics added***

Well here goes. First off before you start go to the hub diagram thread and download the service diagram and read it thoroughly.
Dissassembly:
1. Remove the Adjusting Cone Lock Nut AB-35, using Wrench AB-102 (or make your own using the idea elsewhere in this thread) shift brake to low gear, and rotate sprocket clockwise ( in the driving direction ) until the sun gear is disengaged from planet gears. The cone can then be removed and the brake disassembled in the normal manner.
The custom wrench made from a 12mm socket.
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Loosen the lock nut
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Rotate the sun gear clockwise to remove the sun gear and planetary assembly
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The planetary assembly should slide out of the sun gear. USE CAUTION NOT TO LOOSE THE 11 (OR 12) LOOSE BALL BEARINGS!
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Slide the rest of the unit out of the hub
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Remove the clutch pack
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Remove the lock nut, brake arm, and dust cap.
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Unscrew the disc set assembly from the axle.
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Now you can take all the inner assemblies apart to clean, repair, or replace what is needed.

I decided to put the innerds together with out the housing or grease so I would be sure how it went together and to make the pics easier to see.
That being said, Here we go.
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1. Screw the Cone Arm and Disc Support AB-33, onto axle until 1 1/8" of axle projects beyond the outside end. ( Short spline end outside ).
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2. Assemble hub retainer AB-16, ( large bearing ) on the anchor cone, (balls facing in ).
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3. Install Anchor End Dust Cap AB-31; Brake Arm AB-10; and Lock Nut BB-15. Tighten lock nut ( 1" of axle should project outside of lock nut ).
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4. Assemble Disc Set AB-22, by first placing a thin steel disc next to cone arm and disc support, alternate brass and steel disc are assembled with the thick steel disc and inside end of the disc set. ( Disc Set is composed of six steel and five brass discs ). Steel discs should be lubricated before assembly by dipping in grease to approximately one-third their diameter.
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5. Install Plate Assembly AB-6, and lock the assembly with Retaining Ring AB-9.
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6. Install the low speed clutch retarder spring in the groove of the plate assembly. ( Control Nut Retarders are the spring wires wrapped around Plate Assembly AB-6 and High Speed Clutch Assembly AB-23--retarder springs are not sold seperately ). Assemble the Retarder Coupling, Low Speed AB-12, on the Plate Assembly. ( This retarder coupling has no hooks ). When properly assembled the ends of the low speed clutch retarder spring will point toward the open section of the Low Speed Retarder Coupling.
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7. Install the high speed retarder spring in the groove of the High Speed Clutch AB-23. ( High Speed Retarder Spring is not sold seperately and becomes part of AB-23 assembly ). Assemble the High Speed Retarder Coupling AB-21, on this clutch. When properly assembled the ends of the high speed retarder spring will point toward the open section of the High Speed Retarder Coupling.
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8. Assemble the Low Speed Clutch AB-3, on the High Speed Retarder Coupling AB-21, by hooking one finger of the coupling through the slot in the Low Speed Clutch and spreading the High Speed Retarder Coupling far enough to allow the opposite finger to through the other slot in the clutch. ( The tapered surfaces on the clutches should slant in the same direction ). This comprises the Clutch Pack Assembly AB-45.
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9. Install the Clutch Pack Assembly on the axle. Fingers on the Low Speed Retarder Coupling should project through the slots in the Clutch Pack Assembly.
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10. Align and center the lugs of the brass discs. Carefully align the slots in the hub with lugs on discs and assemble hub. If Disc Aligning Tool AB-103 is available it should be used to compress disc pack in order to hold the disc lugs in alignment before assembling hub.
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11. Assemble the Indexing Spring AB-26, over the indexing sleeve on the High Speed Screw Assembly AB-18 or 19. The three short lugs must be next to the ball race shoulder.
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12. Assemble the Planet Gears MS-37, in the Low Speed Screw AB-2, by driving the Planet Pins AB-30, flush with, or slightly below the surface containing the large holes. This now becomes the Low Speed Driving Screw Assembly AB-28.
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13. This is composed of the control assembly, the Low Speed Screw Assembly AB-28, and eleven loose 1/4" balls AB-24. The balls should be placed in the internal ball race of the Control Assembly AB-18. The Low Speed Screw Assembly AB-28, should be assembled with AB-18, and checked for free rolling.
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14. Locate hub Retainer AB-16, ( large bearing ) in the drive end of the hub. Assemble transmission assembly by holding together and screwing clockwise until both members are seated on their bearings.
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15. Drop drive end Retainer AB-20, in place.
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16. Locate Drive End Dust Cap AB-32, on Adjusting Cone and Sun Gear AB-7, and assemble drive end Dust Cap Lock Ring AB-41. Be sure dust cap seats flush all the way around.
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17. Screw the Dust Cap, Sun Gear and Cone Assembly on axle until the sun gear engages the planet gears. ( It may be necessary to rotate the sprocket slightly in order to engage the gears ). Use wrench BB-100, and backoff 90* - 120* ( degrees ). Hold cone in this position and tighten Lock Nut AB-35, using Cone Adjusting Wrench AB-102.
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I will edit to add pics of the final greased assembly later. This being my first detailed rebuild thread, I am open to any suggestions or comments to help make my next one better.
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

heres a socket i made for the elusive "bendix automatic tool AB-102", i used a 12mm deep well socket to allow for the axle. i meant to clean the tabs up a little but it worked just fine without doing so so i never did :mrgreen: you can also use a cotter spanner tool too just as easy though

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for the slotted nut hugging the axle

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Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

I soooo stole your tool idea today. That will make this so much easier when I tear it apart and put it back together this weekend.

I greased it up last night and reassembled it in the hub, but it won't shift out of the low gear, now I get to tear it down and start over. I decided that the red bands were faded and chipped more than I wanted so I took some nail polish remover and some pipe cleaners and striped them all off and then repainted with several coats of Cherry Red nail polish. I turned out really sharp looking and the lacquer should hold up well since there is no wear on it. I'll post some pics when I document the rebuild again. I will try to borrow a real camera and document the entire process.

Anybody have a clue why this might be stuck in low and what I need to look for to get it to work properly?
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

looks like it all went together right, try playing with the tab fingers on the index spring (the last spring you put on) sometimes they get bent out of place either from normal use or get bent while handling them.
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

Be very careful when you try to bend the tabs on the index spring. Spring steel don't bend very well and if you break a tab off you're screwed. Those springs go for $30 each. Your pics are too big and crappy to see but maybe you put the index spring on backwards. It only goes one way and it won't shift if it's on backwards. Gary
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

What type of grease did you use?

My yellow band shifts well, but makes noise in low gear and doesn't roll as well as a 1 speed hub. I'm going to take it apart, clean it and lube it, but I want to use the correct grease.
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

B607 said:
Be very careful when you try to bend the tabs on the index spring. Spring steel don't bend very well and if you break a tab off you're screwed. Those springs go for $30 each. Your pics are too big and crappy to see but maybe you put the index spring on backwards. It only goes one way and it won't shift if it's on backwards. Gary


I put the spring on with the three tabs toward the bearing race as the instructions said. Should I heat the spring before I bend it, if that is needed?

Wildcat said:
What type of grease did you use?

My yellow band shifts well, but makes noise in low gear and doesn't roll as well as a 1 speed hub. I'm going to take it apart, clean it and lube it, but I want to use the correct grease.

I normally use Hi Temp automotive brake rotor and wheel bearing grease. I couldn't find my tub when I put this back together so I just used General Purpose black grease. When I rebuild it again I will use the Hi temp stuff since I found it since then.
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

Do not heat the spring. You'll take the temper out of it and ruin it. The black grease may be your problem now. If the grease is too heavy it will not want to shift right. Use white lithium grease to lube the hub parts except for the index spring. Use a little oil like household 3-In-1 oil or some such to lube the spring. Gary
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

Ok, I just set down to post a "HELP" thread for rebuilding my yellow band 2 speed. Seems someone beat me to this endeavor. Not to highjack the thread, but other than grearing, is there anything different with a yellow vs. red hub?

I have a recently purchased schwinn trike I thought I'd do a quick tuneup/tire change on today so the wife could take it for a spin. NOT....

Once again, not trying to steal this thread. Just thought it easier to keep the subject all together.
Can anyone give me a quick diagnoses based on these facts:

>You can pedal for two or three chain ring turns before it engages to go forward.
>Attempting to brake does the same thing. 1, 2, or even 3 turns of the chain ring before the coaster engages.
>No sign of any gear shifting.

thanks,
Jules
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

julesjunk said:
Ok, I just set down to post a "HELP" thread for rebuilding my yellow band 2 speed. Seems someone beat me to this endeavor. Not to highjack the thread, but other than grearing, is there anything different with a yellow vs. red hub?

red and yellow have the same gearing, direct and underdrive. the brakes are different, the reds have a clutch/disc pack, the yellow bands have drum shoes.

blue is the only one with direct drive and an overdrive and its the only one that says "overdrive" on the coaster brake arm. it has drum shoes for brakes.

trfindley.com bendix page describes how to tinker with the index spring.
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

CCR said:
red and yellow have the same gearing, direct and underdrive. the brakes are different, the reds have a clutch/disc pack, the yellow bands have drum shoes.

I suspect a drum brake hub will have far less parts, and possibly less worries concerning "tolerances"??
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

julesjunk said:
CCR said:
red and yellow have the same gearing, direct and underdrive. the brakes are different, the reds have a clutch/disc pack, the yellow bands have drum shoes.

I suspect a drum brake hub will have far less parts, and possibly less worries concerning "tolerances"??

ive had NOS red and yellow hubs, the reds seem to stop better in my opinion. as far as picking up old bikes, out of the last 3 bikes ive found with yellows only 1 had braking problems, out of the last 3 bikes ive found with reds, only 1 had working brakes. i dont know if it was due to wear or abuse in any case though, but i have more luck with yellow bands.
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

I am getting just a little frustrated with this thing. I still only have low gear. I have torn it down and put it back together several times both with the hub and without. I tweeked the indexing spring tabs a little and it is indexing properly. The only thing I can find is that mine has 12 loose ball bearings in the transmission assembly and the tech docs say it should have 11. The 12 bearings all fit nicely and look correct, but is it?

I borrowed a decent camera and took some better pics tonight, but I didn't get the cable :roll: so I should be able to get the picks loaded tomorrow evening and make this how to look a little better. Now only if I could get this thing to work a little better. Any help?
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

julesjunk said:
>You can pedal for two or three chain ring turns before it engages to go forward.
>Attempting to brake does the same thing. 1, 2, or even 3 turns of the chain ring before the coaster engages.
>No sign of any gear shifting.

thanks,
Jules

Did you rebuild this hub? If not, it might just need cleaned and regreased. These hubs are 40 yrs old and the original grease has broken down. It's like gum. Gary
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

udallcustombikes said:
I am getting just a little frustrated with this thing. I still only have low gear. I have torn it down and put it back together several times both with the hub and without. I tweeked the indexing spring tabs a little and it is indexing properly. The only thing I can find is that mine has 12 loose ball bearings in the transmission assembly and the tech docs say it should have 11. The 12 bearings all fit nicely and look correct, but is it?

You only need 11 balls. Get rid of one of the balls. If your indexing spring appears to be okay and you're still not shifting, it could be the high speed retarder spring is weak. Also, check your high speed retarder coupling and make sure the two little "hooks" on the end of the coupler are not broken off. Gary
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

udallcustombikes said:
I borrowed a decent camera and took some better pics tonight, but I didn't get the cable :roll: so I should be able to get the picks loaded tomorrow evening and make this how to look a little better. Now only if I could get this thing to work a little better. Any help?

Looking forward to seeing the pics. As close as we are to each other, when you get yours running, maybe you can come to KC and rebuild mine?...... :shock:

Glad you get to be the guinea pig on this. :) And thanks for letting me piggyback the thread.

Regards,
Jules

I'm planning on breaking down mine later this morning. I'll post pics.
 
Re: Triple Red Band Rebuild

B607 said:
Did you rebuild this hub? If not, it might just need cleaned and regreased. These hubs are 40 yrs old and the original grease has broken down. It's like gum. Gary

41 years to be exact. It's on a 68 Schwinn Trike. And that was my hopeful thinking. Just dried grease.
I've not yet broke into it. Thought I'd "school" myself a bit before. Also wanted to make sure special tools weren't needed.
Plan on cracking the egg later this morning. I'll document with pics.

Thanks,
Jules
 

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