Welding Equip.

[Jake]

What would be the basic (budget wise)equipment would need to build a frame?

I know NOTHING about welding but I am very interested in learning and trying my hand at frame building/modifying....thanks to you guys and your awesome pictures!

So any and all advice is welcomed.

 

[BankerRAt]

Im with you on this one Jake! Ill follow this thread until I know what to buy too!!!

 

[udallcustombikes]

If money is no object :wink: , I would get a tig set-up. The welds are very clean and it is easy to use. I am working with VERY shallow pockets and use a Harbor Freight Flux core Wire feed welder. I got it for about $100 and it sticks metal together real good, not very pretty though. Don't make the same mistale and just buy goggles though, buy the full face mask. The UV from the arc gave me the worst "sunburn" ever. My face was peeling for about two weeks and I was subject to much riticule (sp.) from my co-workers. Much deserved for being a big dummy.

 

[stretch]

get a lincoln electric or millar welder, or some other trusted and known brand. not to knock your 100 welder man, if it works for you, great. but most times you get what you pay for. i bought a little 110 mig at home depot for about 500-700, and got a 20" tank, because i hate flux core. practice makes almost perfect, and i suggest a jig of some sort to keep things straight. i eye-ball everything, and i have very good luck with that. my frames never ended up crooked(maybe cuz i stood there torqing parts for hours) :roll: but thats just me.

 

[Graylock]

15 dollars. Good enough.

GL

 

[KOTA]

Thermal Arc 190..........Thermal arc 300

It doesn't get any better then either one of these welders. The downside is the price of either is VERY VERY high plus the amount of electricity and argon you use isn't cheap.

 

[udallcustombikes]

I fully agree with you, you get what you pay for. I didn't have a lot to spend and it shows when you look at my welds. But for what I paid, I can't be upset. I haven't had any of my welds break (yet), they just aren't pretty. When I get a little extra coin in my pocket I fully plan on buying a quality welder.

 

[stretch]

well, i think the way they look just might be the flux core. i bet if you hooked it up with a tank your welds would look a lot better.

 

[bicycleguy]

I'm using a Lincoln from 1989 with flux-core and can weld pretty good with it and it's never gave me any problems.

 

[Danimal]

I was recently looking into welders myself. People reccomended Lincoln welders to me. Home Depot has some MIG welders that can do flux core or argon gas, wire feed. They are around $500. I will not buy a cheap one. I had some experience welding years ago and I know the value of quality tools.

 

[UncleKudzu]

roll your own with an old microwave oven (instructables.com): Build a Microwave Transformer Homemade Stick/Arc Welder. same guy has an instructable using car batteries to weld.

i notice that no one mentions oxy/acetylene; is that just for brazing with lugs, or why does no one use it?

 

[Unchained]

roll your own with an old microwave oven (instructables.com): Build a Microwave Transformer Homemade Stick/Arc Welder. same guy has an instructable using car batteries to weld.

i notice that no one mentions oxy/acetylene; is that just for brazing with lugs, or why does no one use it?

I think that oxygen/acetylene is what I used to silver braze my lugged frame- I think primarily it's used for lugs, but the odd things is that I think most all older cruisers were brass fillet brazed (without using lugs- frame tubes were just butted together and brazed). If you had the right torch, brazing is probably less expensive than buying a welder. We have a Miller MIG welder wire feed setup that works great, though. I don't get very attractive welds, it requires a lot of cleanup, but they are strong.

 

[bicycleguy]

A nice welding helmet is also a good investment. I have been using a cheap auto darkening one for the last few years and finally decided to spend the money on the nicest helmet Radnor makes, I noticed a diifernce in my welds the first time I used it.

 

[Herman]

I've been a welder since 1979 and at one time or another,I've been certified in all catagories of welding,mig ,tig & stick & gas welding(ox-acetalene).As far as brands of welders,everyplace I ever worked used either Miller or Lincoln,both are good but the Millers seem to run a little bit softer(more stable arc).Ox-acetale we only used on heavy wall pipe in certain applications,it is slow.Stick welding takes practice to get good at where you leave off & start with a new stick to make it look like 1 continuos weld.To get a nicer looking weld with a mig,use the whip technique,that is moving the arc quickly ahead of the puddle and bringing it back to the edge of the puddle,pausing until the "new" puddle is the same size as the previous,whipping ahead again,keep repeating.When "whipping" ahead you don't go to far(you don't actually leave the puddle,you are basically elongating it).When done right your weld will look like a roll of dimes,each one overlapping the next one.Tig welding is a lot like gas welding,where you are manually adding the filler rod,the differance is you can control the arc with a foot pedal to vary the heat somewhat.For beginers and all around bicycle work(given the thin tubing) I would recomend mig,brazing & silver soldering

 

[Ratfink1962]

Ive got a Miller, it looks like this...

I am using a 75% argon - 25% Co2, I have never tried using the spool gun, but want to. I would need to get a straight argon tank and regulator, but I would be able to weld aluminum.

I use mine for welding everything from sheetmetal, to the thick stuff. I have used it for joining 3/8" plate, and even at full power I felt that it could still do more.

I wouldnt mind doing oxy/acytelene gas welds, but I would need to buy some tanks. Welding places around here also lease tanks, but for me its easier to just buy them.

And like what was said above... wear a helmet! dont be a fool like me and burn your eyes and have to go to the ER in the middle of the night...

 

[udallcustombikes]

15 dollars. Good enough.

GL

Graylock, I assume you built your welder like the one linked to above. Would you mind describing how you added the different taps? Are they to give you some control of the weld? I decided I need to build one and just need a little info. Thanks, Cameron

 

[Graylock]

I would love to but I'm in the middle of an article on these welders for the Atomic Zombie News Letter that I may miss the deadline for October. My article on Plaiding a bike was in their September news letter. I talked a little about this half way down this post http://ratrodbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14442&p=145388#p145388
But for now here's the short story. The taps are different parts of the wind that I soldered leads to, taped them off and continued with the wind.
The article will cover what you read in the Intructables and in http://aaawelder.com/. I'll show how I stuffed the wires in and add the taps in. The taps give you different levels of heat. I have three working welders ( 2 with no taps) and enough transformers to make 3 more. I spent almost a month of a few hours an evening experementing with these things. It works pretty well for welding small stuff and I haven't touched my Craftsman or Miller stick welders in almost 2 years.
Still you have to learn how to use stick. Like anything you can do it with practice. Rods are cheap. I use 3/32 6013 rods. There is another rod I use but I have to hunt it down I think it was 7014 or 7018, the correct one being easy to learn with. My Huffy swing bike I used 6 rods, real cheap.

So.... collect your parts, maybe do a little experementing yourself. Please read the hazards, we don't want you to fry your butt.

GL
The 15 dollars is what I spent on the rod holder!

 

[udallcustombikes]

Thanks Graylock! I will be watching for the AZ newsletter!

 

[hillsmith]

I have been through the shopping for a welder deal twice and learned the hard way by buying off brand stuff (seemed like a good deal), and not being unable to get replacement parts and consumables easily.
The Mig (wire feed) is pretty easy to get the technique down in a day or two of practicing on scraps and is a good all around welder. If you have the ability to run 220V Miller makes a great machine, the Millermatic 212 Auto-Set. If 220V is a problem there is a 211 version that will run off 110V or 220V for about $1,000.
I have a Miller Synchrowave 250 DX Tig that is capable of welding anything and easy to use once you get the settings right but is probably overkill for home use and a spendy unit.
Check with the local welding supply shops near you and make sure they can support whatever equipment you end up with.
Lastly, plan on at least $200 for a decent helmet with autoshield. If you cant see, your welds will look like crap. GoodLuck..

 

[Ronsonic]

I have some but limited welding/brazing experience, and I'm going to suggest oxy acetylene brazing for bike work. You can get away with air Mapp or air acetylene for silver braze with lugs, but to fillet braze you'll need the O/A. Why braze - less heat on thin tubes, you won't be damaging the tubes from overheating (or shouldn't be). No burn through. Biggest risk welding thin wall tubes is putting holes in them. It is the old school classic method of building bikes for everyone except Schwinn and they avoided it by using ridiculously thick pipes and ending up with absurdly heavy bikes.

There's a lot of fine TIG welded bikes now and if that's what you already know and do, then go for it. For most of us that's like taking up a new career both in equipment and learning curve. I know this is Rat Rod Bikes and not Fine and Fancy Bikes, but I've not seen classy MIG work on a bike. I don't know that it can't be done, but it isn't for some reason or other.

With brazing you can do any level of work from hacking two forks together for a chopper and having it hold to building as fine a steel frame as can be built. Brazing doesn't need face shields, kevlar gauntlets or heavy aprons and won't turn you spotty, just a pair of goggles and some work gloves. You don't have to rewire the workshop and decent O/A rigs can be had used for a hundred or two. Brass and flux are cheap. Even the fancy stuff is cheap unless you get into silver. Want a custom rack or fender mounts or other doodads on your bike, start with some small rod or tube, even steel truck brake line and braze it up. Try that with a hardware store welder. Don't let anyone tell you it isn't strong enough, a good braze will hold after the base metal tears. And it won't weaken the base metal as much.

Anyway, that's my case for O/A brazing. Your mileage will vary according to your experience and what tools you're already comfortable with.