Welding Equip.

[UncleKudzu]

Anyway, that's my case for O/A brazing.

thanks for that, Ronsonic. i'm curious about the O/A approach, but no one here seems to be doing it. maybe it dates me, but i've always thought that brazing was how frames were built.

 

[chimichanga]

I'm taking some welding course at the local community college. So far i'm only working on o/a welding but I would like to get something to use at home. My budget is around $650.00 what would you guys recommend? Mig with gas or o/a?

 

[Jake]

Thank you all for your replies.I have learned a lot and have gotten a few good ideas.
One thing though about brazing tubes...doesn't this bring into the equation ones ability to cut the tubes to more exacting tolerances? With the Mig/Tig type welding (in my humble uneducated guess) the tolerances for dry fitting doesn't need to be as tight. Am I wrong in this assumption?

 

[KOTA]

Thank you all for your replies.I have learned a lot and have gotten a few good ideas.
One thing though about brazing tubes...doesn't this bring into the equation ones ability to cut the tubes to more exacting tolerances? With the Mig/Tig type welding (in my humble uneducated guess) the tolerances for dry fitting doesn't need to be as tight. Am I wrong in this assumption?

You be right.

 

[antipodean]

Can anyone comment on MIG gassless welders versus arc welders with current control and thin rods?

I built a buritto frame recently using an arc welder with 2.6mm rods, but only needed to weld onto the head tube, the bottom bracket and the seat tube. It worked well, but when I tried to shorten it I started welding the down tube, which is much thinner and the whole thing went to seed. Hence I'm wondering if I should get a gasless MIG, or a cheaper ARC welder with current control?

I'm basically broke. I might be able to scrounge up $300 for a welder.

Any thoughts or experience?

I did note the previously mentioned home made arc welders, but would a gasless MIG welder be any better? Also what is the difference between a gasless MIG and an arc welder? It seems strange to have a Metal inert gas welder without gas.

 

[X-RAY]

for me, anyway, mig has become a generic term for any welder that has wire feed and doesnt do aluminum. gas or flux core, right or wrong, thats how i think alot of others label it too.

 

[XC204]

I broke down a few years ago an sprung for this Tig/Plasma cut/Stick welder at about $1k buck wouldn't go back to stick except for work on the Jeeps or trailers I have. Its so convenient to use and clean no slag to sweep. HF has a small inverter tig for about $200 no foot pedal no tank but has reg and hose and torch not for alum. the electronics look well done. Check out this site for excellent welding info. http://weldingweb.com/

By null at 2009-05-23

By null at 2009-04-27

By null at 2009-05-23

 

[scrumblero]

oxy-acetylene is a super versatlie tool and was the standard way to weld thin steel for generations, I use my tanks way more than my stik welder, :roll:

 

[Uncle Stretch]

Gee I have a comment. In the 30' and 40's they filled in body panels with lead......its because bondo wasn't invented yet. Now old school guys will tell you lead is the only way to do it.....Lead will poison you. They brazed all early bicycle frames because mig's and tigs wern't invented yet. Any wire welder has lots more tinsel strength than brass . Tig welding requires expensive welders and really good fitment. Lots of learning to deal with the adjustable heat doesn't hurt. Simple cheap mig welders will do whatever most of the people here can do. Its doubtful that having a $1000 tig will make your frames turn out like production built ones , unless you spend the hours and hours of practice. That guy welding 8 hours a day only keeps his job because he can do it nice. :wink: Telling someone with no welding experience they need a Tig is like telling someone that is going to get a drivers license they need to buy a Ferrari.

 

[Beau]

To get a nicer looking weld with a mig,use the whip technique,that is moving the arc quickly ahead of the puddle and bringing it back to the edge of the puddle,pausing until the "new" puddle is the same size as the previous,whipping ahead again,keep repeating.When "whipping" ahead you don't go to far(you don't actually leave the puddle,you are basically elongating it).When done right your weld will look like a roll of dimes,each one overlapping the next one.

Best info I have ever read on here.

I'm going back to brazing. Les mess and it heats the shop up.

 

[XC204]

Sorry Unc didn't mean to imply Tig was the only way ,just a possible in a wide price range. Its good for me because its slow moving and I can control my speed easily. I tried Mig a few times dut those things just move too fast for me. Also just wanted to get the http://weldingweb.com/ site info out as its a wealth of information.

 

[antipodean]

OK. I went down to my local hardware store and found some brouchures from a manufacture that built MIG, arc and inverter welders. It seems that arc welders with adjustable current can weld steel 2mm thick and up, but the gasless MIG will weld from 1.5 mm and up. So I bought an Ozito 90 amp gasless MIG welder for $AU 270 ($US 260) It works a treat. Arc welders from the same place start at $AU 99. I did blow a hole in a tube at one point, but managed to fill it up pretty quick. At the end of the day, after welding my frame I was welding up the carrier, and ran out of flux core. I decided to arc weld one side of the carrier, while the other was gasless MIG welded. I noticed the following.
+ The ARC welder got the steel considerably hotter.
+ The weld material was a different colour, perhaps a different material.

As mentioned earlier gasless MIG welders have a wire feed, and the wire was 0.8mm versus 2.6mm for the ARC. Also because the current only flows when you pull the trigger, you can place the electrode on the work before you put the mask on, which is pretty cool. I think that's total difference between the two, unless someone can add to that. The welds I made with the MIG welder looked a lot better, and I had no problem with blowing holes in tubes. The frame appears to be holding well. So based upon my 8 hours experience so far I would recommend that people get a MIG gasless welder.

 

[Uncle Stretch]

Sorry Unc didn't mean to imply Tig was the only way ,just a possible in a wide price range. Its good for me because its slow moving and I can control my speed easily. I tried Mig a few times dut those things just move too fast for me. Also just wanted to get the http://weldingweb.com/ site info out as its a wealth of information.

I would love to have a tig. I can weld pretty good and I can think of lots of times, I really needed one. For small really precise welds , a tig is the only choice. The only problem I have is most of the time people that want to learn how to weld , buy a machine and then it will sit for years in the same spot ,unused because they never follow through. If they buy a cheap 110 welder , they are perfect to learn with and if you just want to store one for the rest of your life , they don't cost alot. If you learn , then is the time to step up to a more expensive machine. :wink:

 

[Graylock]

Thanks Graylock! I will be watching for the AZ newsletter!

I am so sorry I didn't follow this through. My apologies. The other day in another thread you asked again which made me think of this post. Today I needed a welder at work to fix a broken weathervane, lets just say that Joel broke it. :roll: He did......Joel broke it. I went home to grab the first welder that I made, #2 I gave to a friend and #3 is the one screwed to a hand cart that I use for my bikes. So looks like I'll just have to get off my duff and get this going :wink: . I had planned to make a portable out of it so I found an old Work tool box and put all the parts in it.

Joel broke this weathervane

So.......I bring #1 to work and fix the weathervane that Joel broke but the welder is on a steel base that's too awkward to pick up and the darn thing is heavy. I need to make that portable one !

Later says Graylock

 

[Motopecane]

If I can offer my two cents I don't think anyone should buy an expensive welder if they are new and just want to build some bikes. I think with lots of practice and once you know that building bikes may be something you want to continue to do and are good at then you earn the need to buy something better. As for myself I wanted to know how to weld for a long time and finally just got the Harbor freight 120V flux wire welder. If you want to make it perform better the first thing to do is get yourself a roll of good .035 flux core wire from your local welding supply. With that setup I have not had any problems or complaints about it.

here is what I use

120v flux core welder from Harbor Freight

leather welding gloves also from HF

Auto darkening mask from HF

A set of good wire cutters

A hammer with a blade on it (chipping hammer)

a stiff wire brush about $1.70 at Lowes

various welding magnets from HF

A dickies jacket to keep from slag burns

and lastly a beanie because sometimes slag goes over the helmet