Welding Tips!

[RatFink328]

So give me your best welding tips. Maybe its common knowledge, or maybe its something that you figured out yourself. But I cant be the only person here that is new to the type of welding needed to build nice bikes!

In all the welding that i've done before, I havnt been very concerned over making it look nice or what other people will think. But welding frames is very different than that. I try to weld as little as possible while making the join as strong as possible.

I use a MIG welder, buy the way.

Does anyone have any tips on stretching a section of frame?

 

[udallcustombikes]

Lots of good info here.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2599

 

[Chainsaw]

Does anyone have any tips on stretching a section of frame?

Sleeve the frame sections whenever possible. I'm about 280 lbs. I weld with a Harbor Freight flux core mig welder and I pretty much suck at it. Grinders are my best friends. If you suffer this problem also, I feel for ya! I've never had any of my frames break because of my wleding inexperience, but too much grinding in one area can turn your next ride into a very memorable experience! :shock:

 

[RatFink328]

I'm been a metal fabricator for about 20 years, but have no real formal training, other than practice, practice, practice. I learned by screwing up more than I got rght back in the day, but I never gave up and learned from my mistakes. Get some scrap tubing and play with your settings on your machine until you are comfortable. Most important thing is to not be afraid of the sparks! Chainsaw is right, the grinder is yor best friend...get some sandpaper flap discs to grind your welds smooth. You can make the worst welds look lke Schwinn brazed them with these things!

How far can I grind welds before it starts to effect their strength? I didnt sleeve it, but my last frame I ground the welds down to about 2-3 millimeters of the tubing. To me, they look ugly. I would love to grind them nearly flat. But that would effect strength, right?

 

[xHOBOPHOBIAx]

I'm been a metal fabricator for about 20 years, but have no real formal training, other than practice, practice, practice. I learned by screwing up more than I got rght back in the day, but I never gave up and learned from my mistakes. Get some scrap tubing and play with your settings on your machine until you are comfortable. Most important thing is to not be afraid of the sparks! Chainsaw is right, the grinder is yor best friend...get some sandpaper flap discs to grind your welds smooth. You can make the worst welds look lke Schwinn brazed them with these things!

How far can I grind welds before it starts to effect their strength? I didnt sleeve it, but my last frame I ground the welds down to about 2-3 millimeters of the tubing. To me, they look ugly. I would love to grind them nearly flat. But that would effect strength, right?

In my opinion you should always sleeve tubing if you are extending it. If your welds have good penetration you should be able to grind them smooth with no problem.

 

[Uncle Stretch]

With another piece of pipe inside that is a close fit , you can leave about a 32nd gap and when you weld your welding the two pieces together and also welding both to the pipe inside .When you sand the weld down it will be strong. Plus it lines the parts your welding up. To keep two pieces of tubing(pipe) straight while you weld ...clamp a piece of angle iron a foot or so long and have the two pieces of pipe in the v. If you are welding on a thin piece of tubing you can slide a piece of copper pipe/tubing inside the tubing and it will heat sink and not let you burn through. It has to be close to the inside size. Watch your sparks because they fall on stuff that burns ...like rags...paper and the such. Buy a good helmet that has the lens that darkens when you weld...the cheap ones are about $40 or $50 and worth every penny. Oh yeah test a few welds to see how you do. Weld something together ...stick it in a vice and whack it with a big hammer ...if it breaks ,your back to square one. Thats all from me. :lol:
Most high schools offer a continuing education program at night a couple nights a week and most teach basic welding. They usually charge just the cost of supplies.

 

[sensor]

Weld something together ...stick it in a vice and whack it with a big hammer ...if it breaks ,your back to square one.

thats the way i learned(although i used a frame rack to pull them....but i like overkill :lol: )
and yes the more you take off the weaker they get(try using flat stock the same guage as the tube youre going to weld......that way you can see the back side and know if youre getting penetration and how much.....
ive seen some nice looking welds that were garbage.....they couldve used chewing gum and had better luck :shock:

 

[xHOBOPHOBIAx]

Oh, and I like to bevel pipe before I weld it to get more surface area, might be over kill too

 

[Philphine]

i'm learning that i have to be real deliberate with my cheap home welder. at work i use what i call a "stab and tack" method that a good welder lets me get away with (so far), but with my $99 welder i have to make sure i have that kind of "bead" going and be careful of my hand movement.

mostly though, it's just work with it. i've gotten a little better with the home welder, part from playing with other non bike projects, just using it more. already used up a spool of wire.

 

[Philphine]

ran back through the thread so i might have missed it if it was mentioned, but also when i stick in a sleeve, i drill a few holes, like 1/4" or so, in the outer tube so i can see the sleeve inside. i weld into those holes too to help get a better attatchment to the sleeve.

 

[Dman]

Gasless MIG is crap. Invest in a bottle setup for CO2 or even better Argoshield (that might just be an NZ thing?). You won't believe the difference!

Instead of buying sleeving tube of the right diameter just take a piece of what you're using, cut a slot the length of it and squeeze it closed untill it fits inside your tubes.

 

[karfer67]

my teacher showed me the C way to do a bead or half moons back and forth back and forth. oh greg showed me that if u start burnning through stuff either switch to thinner wire or turn up the wire speed. i did that with mine (i run .035 wire at anywhere between 3 3.5) and that works for me. also depends on what thickness your welding and it gets tricky when welding a thick peice to thin stuff

 

[Philphine]

one more one more. when i first got my home welder and was whining about how bad i was on it, someone recommended i try the lincoln brand wire when i got a new spool (i still had what came with the welder). i've only used a bit of the lincoln wire, but i think he may have been right. it doesn't seem to spit and spatter quite as much.

 

[Wingman]

Tig Weld It ... Small Pretty Beads that if done rite ya do NOT have to remove any metal when done ... wire brush & paint
Mr Kafer67 has seen stuff welded like this ... Kafer, our teacher made us learn to stick weld before we got to mig weld back in school ... 1974 lol
.. any way he made us use a pencil & plyers .. you would hold the pencil like it was a stick electrode & make lines of sss's on a yellow pad . We did that for about a week as I recall before we got to turn on a machine .

Drilling holes in part to weld thru to inner sleave is known as Roset welds. Race cars use this meathod to connect tubing.

Wingman / Stephen ... Back to base ... OUT

 

[RatFink328]

Tig Weld It ... Small Pretty Beads that if done rite ya do NOT have to remove any metal when done ... wire brush & paint
Mr Kafer67 has seen stuff welded like this ... Kafer, our teacher made us learn to stick weld before we got to mig weld back in school ... 1974 lol
.. any way he made us use a pencil & plyers .. you would hold the pencil like it was a stick electrode & make lines of sss's on a yellow pad . We did that for about a week as I recall before we got to turn on a machine .

Drilling holes in part to weld thru to inner sleave is known as Roset welds. Race cars use this meathod to connect tubing.

Wingman / Stephen ... Back to base ... OUT

I wish I had the money for a TIG welder! I cant even afford a cheap/crappy one.

Im chopping up a Huffy Santa Fe today. Maybe if i have some correct diameter pipe i can try this Roset welding technique.

 

[Philphine]

not really familiar with all the bike models, but if your huffy has the regular size tubing (i think around 1" for the top tube?, really not sure), i used a piece of black pipe to extend it. one size is real close to the same outer diameter. for the sleeve i used the next size down black pipe. had to grind on it some, but it's fits pretty well into the original bike tubing, and ground down a bit more fits into the larger black pipe too.

 

[RatFink328]

The frame uses 1.5" pipe for the bottom tube, 1.25" pipe for the top tube (its a girls bike, right now), and 1" pipe for the seat tube. Its rather strange.

I made the first cuts last night. I'll be stretching the frame 7.5". Expect a build thread soon!

 

[Wingman]

On the wire feed machines ... espically the lesser dollar models ... any kind of small kink in the liner will have a real big effect on outcome of your weld.
Stuck Tips can also present a problem ... always keep new tips on hand .

If your liner has any kind of kink it will cause wire flutter or studder as it moves thru liner ... in turn causing the operator problems or to the un knowing ... will cause probs with welds ... make it look bad ect.
Some machines have a wire tension seting on the rolers & some just use a little wire Bale/Clip kinda deal.
To check your stuff, point the wire at your gloxe & pull the trigger.
If you have the tension rite, the wire should coil uninterupted into your glove.

If your stuff is having a problem, you will notice or see the wire start & stop as it tries to coil agianst the resistance of your glove .

This means you either have a kinked liner or not enough tension on the tensioner.
If your tensioner is adjustable, be carefull not to adjust it to tight or over tighten it.
You only want enough tension to make wire coil into the palm of your glove say 4 coils on test shot.

another good thing is to keep your liner/ wire lubericated . they make cool , little devices that clip to wire & keep them lubbed . There cheep & worth it in the long run .

Another thing is Maintnence... Every once and awile you should remove your wip & Run some carb spray or something simular thru the wip into a tray... You will be real supprised at the gunk, dirt , metal build up you see in the catch tray . Don't belive me, Try it LOL.

Well if ya took the time to read this I hope it helps.

Wingman/ Stephen .... Back to base ... OUT

 

[RatFink328]

On the wire feed machines ... espically the lesser dollar models ... any kind of small kink in the liner will have a real big effect on outcome of your weld.
Stuck Tips can also present a problem ... always keep new tips on hand .

If your liner has any kind of kink it will cause wire flutter or studder as it moves thru liner ... in turn causing the operator problems or to the un knowing ... will cause probs with welds ... make it look bad ect.
Some machines have a wire tension seting on the rolers & some just use a little wire Bale/Clip kinda deal.
To check your stuff, point the wire at your gloxe & pull the trigger.
If you have the tension rite, the wire should coil uninterupted into your glove.

If your stuff is having a problem, you will notice or see the wire start & stop as it tries to coil agianst the resistance of your glove .

This means you either have a kinked liner or not enough tension on the tensioner.
If your tensioner is adjustable, be carefull not to adjust it to tight or over tighten it.
You only want enough tension to make wire coil into the palm of your glove say 4 coils on test shot.

another good thing is to keep your liner/ wire lubericated . they make cool , little devices that clip to wire & keep them lubbed . There cheep & worth it in the long run .

Another thing is Maintnence... Every once and awile you should remove your wip & Run some carb spray or something simular thru the wip into a tray... You will be real supprised at the gunk, dirt , metal build up you see in the catch tray . Don't belive me, Try it LOL.

Well if ya took the time to read this I hope it helps.

Wingman/ Stephen .... Back to base ... OUT

Yeah, i noticed a big difference after i started using "tip grease" (i think thats what its called!) on my MIG welder.

Good stuff. Keep it coming!

 

[Wingman]

LOL... Do U want me to show all my cards .
I don't think anyone would have enough time for all that LOL.