Wheel Builders HELP HELP! ***Solved, With Finished Pics!***

[Tailwinds]

So I thought I'd try my hand at wheel building, simple right? Just get the correct spoke length for the rims/hubs, follow the standard 36 hole layout and voila' right?
Nooooope. What's wrong with this picture??? It's standard Schwinn hub, S2 rim, and 10-5/8" spokes, now at this point all of the nipples are screwed onto the spokes to within 1/8"-1/16" from the end of the nipples and there appears to be TONS of slack left on the spokes.
Laced wrong?

 

[deorman]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

Maybe try 4 cross? :?

 

[Tailwinds]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

Maybe try 4 cross? :?

Whussat?

 

[deorman]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

Spokes cross 4 times instead of 3. Uses longer spokes.

 

[Tailwinds]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

Spokes cross 4 times instead of 3. Uses longer spokes.

Ohhh, ya ya, I see what you're saying.

Buuuut, I have a bunch of S2 and other 26" wheels laying around, they're all laced in the same pattern, the pattern I just duplicated. They're all laced up tight w/ 10-5/8" spokes. Something's gotta be off about the way I did it....
This is driving me crazy.

 

[maddogrider]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

doermans right just go over 3 and under one should work.

 

[Tailwinds]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

Ok, I'm open minded, I'll give it a try.....

 

[deorman]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

Did you measure them or compare them to others? Maybe someone gave you the wrong ones. Or maybe take a second look at your examples.

 

[Tailwinds]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

Did you measure them or compare them to others? Maybe someone gave you the wrong ones. Or maybe take a second look at your examples.

That last sentence there, I think you might be on to something.... :roll:

I just looked at 10 sets of wheels, the vast majority being 3-cross, BUT those S2's, I do believe you are 100% correct. See what happens when I assume?

For the record, a set of S7's I have, nearly identical set of wheels to the S2's, is laced 2-cross, weird.

 

[deorman]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

As I recall, the reasoning behind the 4-cross is they hold up better to torque being transferred from the hub to the rim . It used to be common for service and touring bikes to have 4-cross on the rear and 3-cross on the front. I think some MTB's are the same way.

 

[StephenH]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

I bought a disassembled made-in-India bike (came with no instructions), and laced up my wheels with 3-cross. Oops, spokes are too long. Redid them as 4-cross and that worked perfectly.

Make sure you're really doing the 3-cross right, for one thing. And if so, try the 4-cross.
(Edit: Just looking at the picture- that isn't a 3-cross pattern, is it?)

I don't know how much uniformity there is in old hubs and rims. They COULD be made all pretty much to the same dimensions, or could all vary from one brand to the next. Anyway, check your rim size, check the radius to the spoke holes, and compare to your examples.

 

[Tailwinds]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

Ok I checked everything over carefully, I had laced it 3-cross initially, and correctly, but unfortunately it was supposed to be 4-cross. It wasn't horrible to fix, the first 18 spokes could remain in place, I just had to move the last 18 spokes. Tomorrow morning I'll finish truing it up.

I noticed that on all of my newer bikes and wheels, online instructions and video tutorials, etc, they use an over-over-under pattern, whereas with all of my oldest wheels regardless of the lacing pattern all of the spokes are over-over-over. I assume there is a more contemporary wisdom that concluded that over-under lacing produces a stronger wheel? I wound up lacing my wheel over-over-over-over.

 

[scrumblero]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

do you mean inside over the outside or outside over the inside? :?

 

[CCR]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

i do my 3 cross over the 1st, over the 2nd and under the 3rd. just based off the stock wheels i compared to when learing how to lace wheels. but i dont think any variable of over /under would take up that much slack. glad the 4 cross came through for ya in the end though :mrgreen:

i dont think anythings more frustrating than starting to tighten the spokes up and running into something like that, bet the relief was a fair trade off though in the end

 

[scrumblero]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

i do my 3 cross over the 1st, over the 2nd and under the 3rd. just based off the stock wheels i compared to when learing how to lace wheels. but i dont think and variable of over /under would take up that much slack. glad the 4 cross came through for ya in the end though :mrgreen:

i dont think anythings more frustrating than starting to tighten the spokes up and running into something like that, bet the relief was a fair trade off though in the end

oh i see what hes sayin, its like CCR says. the one closest to the rim is inside over outside the 2 next to the hub are normal.

 

[Korporal]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

Did you measure and calculate (not nearly as intimidating as it sounds) for your spokes? And then do it again?

 

[B607]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

You don't have to put that last one under. I learned by doing it over, over, over and my bikes ride just fine. Gary

 

[Tailwinds]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

Did you measure and calculate (not nearly as intimidating as it sounds) for your spokes? And then do it again?

Yes, definitely. That's one thing I did get right. The S2's use 10-5/8" spokes, I quadruple checked, here's how:
1) I measured the rusty old spokes I removed, 10-5/8".
2) I went to the interwebs and looked up info on Schwinn S2 wheels and spokes.
3) I purchased a set of spokes and nipples that were labeled specifically for use with S2's and at 10-5/8" from a guy on fleabay, really good service!
4) I received them and compared them to the original.

So that part I got right, whew!

But I'm happy to report on my folly as a wheel building newb so that folks that might tackle it in the future can ponder it.

 

[Tailwinds]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

I dont think anythings more frustrating than starting to tighten the spokes up and running into something like that, bet the relief was a fair trade off though in the end

Yep, exactly! I was just happy to know I didn't get the wrong spokes even after making sure I had the right ones over and over.

 

[Korporal]

Re: Wheel Builders HELP HELP!

Guess I need to go back to 3rd grade. I completely missed how you fixed with the lacing pattern.