Workman frame build possibilty... Now "Workman RS"! All but Fini!

[Darran]

Mike G and Bicycle808 - fantastic replies!. Now weighing up getting stock worksman fork versus the conversion approach. Does the stock fork support drum brakes mounting? I'm thinking sturmey archer x-fd.

Is there anything you can tell me regarding dimension requirements and considerations for the bottom bracket and crank axle? Also requirements for rear axle length on the stock frame?

Thanks!

 

[Bicycle808]

You can run an x-fd on the current Worksman fork, but the Sturmey-Archer brake clips (which come in 2 different sizes) are not big enough to fit on the Worksman fork-- I'm running an X-FD on a Landing Gear fork, and I'm using a hose clamp to secure the brake's reaction arm; an old trick and it's worked great for me.

Another option is to get the older forks that came on earlier Worksman INBs. I'm talking about the lugged-crown fork built for Worksman by Akisu. The stock Sturmey-Archer front brake clip easily fits on these forks.

Converting to the 1.125" threadless is easy, but I think that staying with a 1" threaded makes more sense; ultimately, it's up to you. I can't seem to figure out why the Core 77 guys ran the Surly fork; I think it was mostly b/c they wanted to run the Brooklyn Machine Works stem (the Dutch Master was supposed to showcase Brooklyn's local bike bits), but they could have just as easily done that with a quill-to-threadless adaptor. Wouldn't be as "clean", though, I guess. I converted on one of my INBs b/c I wanted to run disc brakes and I thought an On-One segmented fork had a look that would compliment the build; a lot of folks convert to run mtb suspension forks on their Worksman for trail-riding. I guess the question you wanna ask yourself is "why do I want to run the Surly fork?" Depending on your answer, running the stock fork (or some other 1" threaded fork) might make more sense.

As for the other spec questions:
The typical Worksman is spaced at 110mm between the rear dropouts; the standard hub that comes on nthese bikes is a Shimano cb-e110 singlespeed coaster brake hub. Worksman does offer other hubs with wider spacing (Shimano Nexus 3speed, Sturmey s2c kickback) as options, and they spread the frame to accommodate them. If you bought a bare frame from Worksman, or if you got a used frame from Chuckz or something, it will be spaced at 110mm.

I'm assuming you want to run a tubular bmx-style 3 piece, like the one on the Core77 bike. If you're staying with the 110mm spaced coaster brake out back, and you intend to run a tubular crank, you'll want to use the 5 5/8" crank spindle that comes with the typical bmx crank. Most of these cranks will allow you to fine-tune the front chainline with spacers, and the 5 5/8" spindle will get your sprocket right in that 40mm to 42mm chainline that a cb-e110 requires. Just make sure you get an "American" sized bb set designed for the proper diameter spindle (which will vary depending on what cranks you run---19mm is most common.)

If you're thinking of running bmx "race" style 3 piece cranks, or any other type of 3-piece cranks with a square-taper bb, let me know. That conversion has a lot of different strategies, and i'd rather be sure that's your plan before i type all of that stuff out.... It can be pretty involved.

FWIW, the tubular-style bmx cranks (PRofiles, Redline flights, etc) will be stronger than the race-style bmx cranks, and are actually designed with American/mid BB shells in mind-- it's a cleaner install, usually, and they match the Worksman's overbuilt character better, IMO.

 

[Darran]

Thanks for the great reply again - starting to realize I'm a bit out of my depth here (first time bike builder)... so i've decided to go with the stock Worksman fork and headset for now.

Appreciate if you could help with the following:

1. Saddle, Post, Clamp - I would like to run the Brooks B17, am I correct to say I'd need a 22.2mm seat post like this, and a rail clamp like this and a 25mm seat clamp like this?
2. Rear hub - I'd like to use the Sturmey Archer X-RD. I've noticed it comes in both a 1 speed and 7 speed version. I've ordered the stock frame which Bicycle808 has advised likely 110mm between the drop-outs, I've been told by Worksman that it's 4.25" (107.95mm). Is it possible to run this hub on the stock frame?
3. Crankset/BB etc - This is where I'm pretty much totally lost, I've so far been unable to figure out all the variables mentioned. Is there any specific recommendations (with key dimensions) for a 3-piece BMX tubular (silver crank arms) together with the Sturmey Archer X-RD hub, and a specific BB that would work? To be foolproof is there a set including BB you could recommend? Looking for a combination that loosely mimics the Core77 Dutchmaster. I've determined the sprocket used is a Profile Racing is one of these in Black (40T I believe)

Ideally recommendations from Amazon (or Worksman themselves), as I'm not based in USA, so I try place bulk orders through them instead of getting hit with individual shipping costs from many sources.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Bicycle808]

1. Saddle, Post, Clamp - I would like to run the Brooks B17, am I correct to say I'd need a 22.2mm seat post like this, and a rail clamp like this and a 25mm seat clamp like this?

All of those parts will work, but DANG that's an expensive set of seatguts. Same design, at a nicer price: http://www.amazon.com/SBS-Seat-Rail..._sim_sg_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1QEVHE7Z0WQWHKW4DZ0J B/c the B17 is single-rail, you don't have to run a Brooks clamp....

As for the seatpost clamp, I wanted to point out that the actual size you need is 25.4mm, like the description in your link.... but I don't believe i've ever seen a 25mm clamp, anyway. Just try and be sure you got the right one. Speaking of which, are you sure you want one with a quick release??

2. Rear hub - I'd like to use the Sturmey Archer X-RD. I've noticed it comes in both a 1 speed and 7 speed version. I've ordered the stock frame which Bicycle808 has advised likely 110mm between the drop-outs, I've been told by Worksman that it's 4.25" (107.95mm). Is it possible to run this hub on the stock frame?

Yeah, I have a Worksman INB with a Sturmey X-RD in my garage right now. I got the 7 speed version, removed the spacers on the axle, and built the wheel around that with a singlespeed freewheel installed. Chinline is good; no problems.

3. Crankset/BB etc - This is where I'm pretty much totally lost, I've so far been unable to figure out all the variables mentioned. Is there any specific recommendations (with key dimensions) for a 3-piece BMX tubular (silver crank arms) together with the Sturmey Archer X-RD hub, and a specific BB that would work? To be foolproof is there a set including BB you could recommend? Looking for a combination that loosely mimics the Core77 Dutchmaster. I've determined the sprocket used is a Profile Racing is one of these in Black (40T I believe)

OK, here's what i used on my INB with the X-RD hub:
http://www.amazon.com/Redline-3-Pie...rican+bb&pebp=1422880997139&peasin=B000IQBBKO
This BB will work on your frame, with ANY bmx crank with a 19mm spindle... The one I used was:
http://www.amazon.com/Redline-Fligh...t+chrome&pebp=1422881070006&peasin=B000IQEBBU
There are literally dozens of other options at other pricepoints; these happen to be very nicely made and finished cranks with a good design (pinchbolts), but buy what your budget and preferences dictate. Just remember: you'll want a crank with a 19mm spindle. Between the bb set and crankset I've posted, you'll have everything you need for the cranks, except the sprocket. Incidentally, the Profile Imperial has a 19mm bore, and will fit this set-up just fine; you'll just need to try a few different spacer combinations to get it dialed-in. If you use a different front sprocket, it may have a larger dore, and you can still run it by using a "hat washer".... FYI, your INB will look infinitely tougher with a 44t front sprocket; just run a bigger freewheel to compensate. The Dutch Master, i'm pretty sure, ran a 44t Imperial....and if it didn't, it bloody well should've...

HTH. The crank stuff gets confusing, but you'll get it!

 

[Darran]

Bicycle808 - awesome response. Really appreciate you giving the time. I'll work through it tonight. But one burning question - is the standard 110mm spacing between the worksman dropouts ok for the sturmey archer x-rd? Be it 7 or single?

 

[Bicycle808]

For the 7, no. For the Single, yes. You'll need to take all of the black spacers off of the axle, except the larger-diameter, narrowest one just outboard of the brake plate. This will put the spacing at 110mm, with chainline for a singlespeed freewheel at about 41mm.... Both of the X-RD hubs with freewheels are identical, except that the 7 speed has a longer axle, more spacers, and an inch more O.L.D to accommodate the multispeed cluster. Remove the locknuts, pop off the spacers, and the 7 speed becomes a singlespeed....Just remember to tighten those locknuts back down....

 

[Darran]

For the 7, no. For the Single, yes. You'll need to take all of the black spacers off of the axle, except the larger-diameter, narrowest one just outboard of the brake plate. This will put the spacing at 110mm, with chainline for a singlespeed freewheel at about 41mm.... Both of the X-RD hubs with freewheels are identical, except that the 7 speed has a longer axle, more spacers, and an inch more O.L.D to accommodate the multispeed cluster. Remove the locknuts, pop off the spacers, and the 7 speed becomes a singlespeed....Just remember to tighten those locknuts back down....

So seems I'm better off with the single speed version... Do you know where I can source that? Only see 7 speed version on Amazon

If I have no choice but to get a 7 speed, I assume if need to ask Worksman to spread the frame to support it? If so - it would need to go from 110mm to ....?

 

[Bicycle808]

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sturmey-...le-speed-freewheel-36-hole-prod29054/?geoc=us BUT! You're missing the point. The singlespeed version SJS is selling is still spaced at 135mm, just like the 7speed is. (Sometimes, you find the singlespeed at a 120mm spacing...) but in any of these cases, you'd respace the HUB, not the frame!! You just need a few cone wrenches to take the lock nuts (aka jam nuts) off to remove spacers down to 110mm to fit the frame.

Observe: a few years back, i bought the "7 speed" version of the x-rdf. I removed the spacers, knocking the spacing down from 135 to 110mm, laced it to a Sun EQ31, screwed-on an ACS freewheel, and put it in my Worksman:

That's how she looks now. No spacers in the hub, and no spreading or other modification to the frame. If i weren't such a slob, I'd cut the axle down to fit more flush with the frame, but it doesn't really matter.

So, in summary: don't spread the frame. Don't ask Worksman to spread the frame. Buy whatever Sturmey-Archer X-RD is cheapest-- the singlespeed or the 7 speed, so long as it takes a thread-on freewheel. Get yourself a couple of 17mm cone wrenches, pull the jam nuts off, remove the spacers, then put the jam nuts back on. No worries. It'll fit fine.

 

[Bicycle808]

PS- more info on 3 piece cranks here:
http://www.ratrodbikes.com/forum/index.php?threads/3-piece-crankset-on-cruiser-frame.86047/

 

[villageidiot]

great replies the last couple days, i especially like the 1 1/8" threadless recipe. I'm not sure what exactly ill be doing, just waiting for my frame before i start buying parts.

once i see the frame, ill be able to pull the rest together and at the house before it comes back from powder coat.

the hardest question, is, what color anodize.

 

[Darran]

Regarding the cranks - I've found the ones suggested do not ship to my country. Any suggestions of which would work with the suggested BB from profile racing? or alternatively one from profile racing that includes a BB?

 

[Bicycle808]

It's not likely that you'll find 3piece cranks with an American bb included, at least not on Amazon. (They can be easily found on some specialty sites that focus on vintage/retro bmx...) If they won't ship the Redline cranks, perhaps they won't ship the Redline BB either? Regardless, here are some other 19mm cranks...
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=sporting&field-keywords=19mm bmx cranks

Some will include bearings, but these will typically be for a "mid" set-up, and you'd still need to find some American cups to accommodate them...

HTH, and i hope you got your hub situation sorted.

 

[Mike G]

Niagara Cycles wouldn't ship overseas or you haven't tried them yet?
They shipped stuff to me in Kuwait, but that was an APO address, but there were a lot that wouldn't even ship to an APO address...

 

[villageidiot]

i got some sunday saker cranks from eBay that included an american BB in the kit

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221679477244?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[Bicycle808]

All the Sakers on amazon seem to include mid bearing, but no American cups.... And this dude Darran lives overseas; it's easiest on him from a shipping standpoint to get it all from Amazon...

 

[villageidiot]

ahh. that makes sense.

 

[Mike G]

All the Sakers on amazon seem to include mid bearing, but no American cups.... And this dude Darran lives overseas; it's easiest on him from a shipping standpoint to get it all from Amazon...

Yeah when I was looking all the Ebay SAKER's came with the Euro/American BB... no American cup! Next cheapest would probably be the Redline that Niagara sells.

 

[Bicycle808]

There are a bunch of cheap 3 pieces available, and any will work on an INB with an American bb set, so long as the bearings' ID matchs the spindle's OD. If cheapness is a concern, check this out: http://www.amazon.com/Evoke-GC-07-C...id=1423546525&sr=8-1&keywords=evoke+bmx+crank That will work with any 19mm American bb set. The cheapest Redline 3 piece that i know of is the Monster II, which is pricier (and nicer) than several other competing cranks. For a few bucks more, though, I'd take the Flights.... they're just really nice crnks...

 

[villageidiot]

There are a bunch of cheap 3 pieces available, and any will work on an INB with an American bb set, so long as the bearings' ID matchs the spindle's OD. If cheapness is a concern, check this out: http://www.amazon.com/Evoke-GC-07-C...id=1423546525&sr=8-1&keywords=evoke+bmx+crank That will work with any 19mm American bb set. The cheapest Redline 3 piece that i know of is the Monster II, which is pricier (and nicer) than several other competing cranks. For a few bucks more, though, I'd take the Flights.... they're just really nice crnks...

The flight cranks are super nice. For me, I'm sure the Sunday saker cranks will be just fine, it's a cruiser, I don't plan on getting too rad on it, just smashin around town. Maybe on the next bike.

 

[Bicycle808]

The flight cranks are super nice. For me, I'm sure the Sunday saker cranks will be just fine, it's a cruiser, I don't plan on getting too rad on it, just smashin around town. Maybe on the next bike.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Those cranks will do you fine