Yah! Can't wait to bleed my derailleur!

[Grant]

 

[Duchess]

I'm definitely not the the intended customer, but at that point of pointless complexity, why not just go with electronic? I guess cables are too simple, cheap, and easy for the average person to work on? I'm also highly suspicious of their claim that it's lighter than a 1x Bowden cable set up (though, it's probably the difference in body sweat of weight, anyway). Strangely, the only way I see this as an improvement is on something like my Retro Rocket that requires convoluted cable routing that increases friction, but it's not like there are other Retro Rockets out there.

 

[SpikeFC]

I'm also not the intended customer.

Over-complexity - present, and pointless.

Weight saving - makes absolutely no difference. Come on! What's the difference if you're bike weights 9,8kg or 9,7kg? YOU WON'T EVEN FEEL THE DIFFERENCE! (Actually I got a customer, who rides on an old road bike, with steel frame, that weights like 11kg? He rides without valve caps "to save weight" )

1x13 - insanely stupid. The same stupidity as 1x9, 1x10 or 1x11 (or even 1x12 with the new Shimano Deore XT groupset). I assume the chain will last the same as on any new bicycle that has only 1 sprocket on the crank, and that's way shorter, than when you have multispeed cranksets. And what's that guy saying about having 14 usable gears on a setup with 2 sprockets up the front? I have a usable 14 speeds with a 2x7 setup It only comes to proper positioning of the crankset to have every gear working. Also, what's the actuall difference that the smallest cog is only 10T? With a 42T in the front it has a worst gear ratio than my 120$ gravel made from a tourist bike, with a 7 speed casette.

Also who needs a ratio of 42T up to 46T? To have a 4 year old overtake you? Or to ride trough the forest? A lot of bikes that are ordered from an online shop that I assemble from a box, have that kind of stupid gear ratios - tried to ride them on city streets, and it's pointless. The highest gear is to low for riding with a good speed, and the lowest gear is useless. That makes a 1x11 bike only have like 4-5 usable gears...

 

[MattiThundrrr]

Just what nobody ever needed.

 

[wheelbender6]

So after I bleed my hydraulic disk brakes, I will need to bleed my hydraulic derailleur too? That's so innovative.

 

[RustyGold]

Well, I'm not interested in hydraulic derailleurs...but, I am a fan of 1x setups. Mostly because I really dislike any derailleurs...so one is better than two in my book. But, also because of overlapping gears on 2x and 3x setups...I like the idea of a more linear set of ratios without wasted positions.

 

[SpikeFC]

I like the idea of a more linear set of ratios without wasted positions.

Totally agree on that, but there is a limit to how much gears you can have on a cassete with only a single speed in the front. 1x5 is ok, 1x6 also, 1x7 kinda, 1x8 is like a limit for the chain to go always in line. 1x9, 1x10, 1x11, 1x12 and that insane 1x13 is just insane. On the highest/lowest gears the chain is over-tensioned to the side the same as you would run a 1x3 or a 9x1 on a standart 9x3 "27 speed" bicycle.

That's why for slick look i prefer internal gear hubs.

 

[93EXCivic]

Totally agree on that, but there is a limit to how much gears you can have on a cassete with only a single speed in the front. 1x5 is ok, 1x6 also, 1x7 kinda, 1x8 is like a limit for the chain to go always in line. 1x9, 1x10, 1x11, 1x12 and that insane 1x13 is just insane. On the highest/lowest gears the chain is over-tensioned to the side the same as you would run a 1x3 or a 9x1 on a standart 9x3 "27 speed" bicycle.

So what if it isn't perfectly inline? My 1x10 is by far the most reliable drivetrain I have ever had. I like wide range 1x9 or 1x10 as the chain is stronger then 1x11, 1x12 or 1x13. Ideally I want a 11-42 or 46 spread with an appropriately sized chain ring to make sense for where I am riding it. The big problem I have found with 1x12s is that they are so fiddly to keep in adjustment versus any of the other 1x systems. So I can't imagine how fiddly a 1x13 is.

I will never own another front derailleur equip bike again. It is extra complexity for no gain for me. Plus it is a quieter bike.

 

[wheelbender6]

I switched to single speed mountain bikes and fixed gear road bikes for a few years. I missed the rear derailleur, but I have never wanted a front again.

 

[Duchess]

I hate front derailleurs, as well, but the only 1xN I have is Cyclops, which is a 1x6. I am impressed with it, though—it's just an old freewheel without ramps or anything and it shifts like butter (friction, but it just slips from gear to gear smooth and dead quiet). I only have one IGH with Interrobang, which is an alloy 3-speed SA, and I don't like it. I like the cleaner look over a derailleur, but the gear range isn't huge and it feels heavy and draggy. I read that before, but I've usually found criticisms of weight and drag to be overblown, so I dismissed them. The weight isn't a big deal, but it really does feel like there's a lot more friction compared to external gears. Maybe the more modern types of IGH don't have that problem, but I think I still prefer the idea of a 1xN system. I have another Giant Innova (they're nothing special, but I love them and they're cheap!) awaiting conversion to electric (it might wait a while) that I think I'm going to do a 1xN on. I could get away with a 1xN on the USAAF (the other Innova) and Retro Rocket, but the dual shift levers are too much a part of the aesthetic on both of them.

 

[SpikeFC]

I hate front derailleurs, as well, but the only 1xN I have is Cyclops, which is a 1x6. I am impressed with it, though—it's just an old freewheel without ramps or anything and it shifts like butter (friction, but it just slips from gear to gear smooth and dead quiet). I only have one IGH with Interrobang, which is an alloy 3-speed SA, and I don't like it. I like the cleaner look over a derailleur, but the gear range isn't huge and it feels heavy and draggy. I read that before, but I've usually found criticisms of weight and drag to be overblown, so I dismissed them. The weight isn't a big deal, but it really does feel like there's a lot more friction compared to external gears.

I mostly use very old Sachs Dreigang 3 speed (sometimes even marked as Fittel und Sachs, from the fifties-sixties), and they don't have that much drag, far better than Sturmey Archer, Nexus, or what they did to those hubs when Sram started making them. They can withstand everything - Most of the hubs that I get, are from bicycles that seen very heavy use trough the years, and the hubs, are still intact (even though nobody ever cleaned them, or changed oil). When it comes to Nexus 3 speeds, they are super quiet and have low friction but only if you run them with oil. I put grease only on the bearings, and after assembly I just pour 20-35ml of SAE30 oil. You can hear only a very quiet clicking on the 3rd gear.

So what if it isn't perfectly inline? My 1x10 is by far the most reliable drivetrain I have ever had. I like wide range 1x9 or 1x10 as the chain is stronger then 1x11, 1x12 or 1x13. Ideally I want a 11-42 or 46 spread with an appropriately sized chain ring to make sense for where I am riding it. The big problem I have found with 1x12s is that they are so fiddly to keep in adjustment versus any of the other 1x systems. So I can't imagine how fiddly a 1x13 is.

I will never own another front derailleur equip bike again. It is extra complexity for no gain for me. Plus it is a quieter bike.

Fidly - that's one thing. having a gear ratio of 1:1 or lower - that's useless when you live like me in almost flat terrain. Also most of the bikes that come to my shop need a new chain every one-two months, while good quality chains on 3xX setups need changeing after at least 3000-6000km. For me a front derailleur is an option, but I can only give up on it if the rear has maximum of 6 speeds.

 

[MattiThundrrr]

RockRat is always going to be 3x7. It was born that way, I'm looking for an STX (touring/MTB) front mech and shifters for it. My next bike, I'm willing to go 2x9 or whatever. Maybe after that, I'll try 1x. I dislike long cage rear mech and huge cassettes more than I dislike front derailleurs. As for a dropper, haven't needed one in forty years, if I do get one, it can be seat post lever for all I care

 

[Grant]

Well, I'm not interested in hydraulic derailleurs...but, I am a fan of 1x setups. Mostly because I really dislike any derailleurs...so one is better than two in my book. But, also because of overlapping gears on 2x and 3x setups...I like the idea of a more linear set of ratios without wasted positions.

I like 1x setups with a single large chainring.

 

[Grant]

I mostly use very old Sachs Dreigang 3 speed (sometimes even marked as Fittel und Sachs, from the fifties-sixties), and they don't have that much drag, far better than Sturmey Archer, Nexus, or what they did to those hubs when Sram started making them. They can withstand everything - Most of the hubs that I get, are from bicycles that seen very heavy use trough the years, and the hubs, are still intact (even though nobody ever cleaned them, or changed oil). When it comes to Nexus 3 speeds, they are super quiet and have low friction but only if you run them with oil. I put grease only on the bearings, and after assembly I just pour 20-35ml of SAE30 oil. You can hear only a very quiet clicking on the 3rd gear.



Fidly - that's one thing. having a gear ratio of 1:1 or lower - that's useless when you live like me in almost flat terrain. Also most of the bikes that come to my shop need a new chain every one-two months, while good quality chains on 3xX setups need changeing after at least 3000-6000km. For me a front derailleur is an option, but I can only give up on it if the rear has maximum of 6 speeds.

I usually have a 52 in the front because of flatlands.

 

[horsefarmer]

Always interested in gear discussions. Just finished building a '87 Miyata Path Runner, gear inches in this chart.
low range 26t mid range 36t high range 46t

7 14t 48.37 gear inches 66.84 85.57
6 16t 42.39 58.52 74.90
5 18t 37.45 52.02 66.58
4 20t 33.81 46.81 59.82
3 22t 30.69 42.65 54.36
2 24t 28.09 39.01 49.94
1 28t 24.19 33.55 42.65

So 21 speeds gets you from 24 to 86 gear inches. Unfortunately, I have never ridden this bike so I can compare to one of my favorite riders, The Schwinn cruiser 4.

4 (1.843 overdrive) 58 gear inches x 1.843 = 107 gear inches
3 (1.500 overdrive) 58 gear inches x 1.500 = 87 gear inches
2 (1.244 overdrive) 58 gear inches x 1.244 = 72 gear inches
1 (direct) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - = 58 gear inches

In my opinion the Schwinn is pretty tall geared since I upped the front chaining to 49t. It was originally 52 to 96 gear inch range. Looks like I will need consider changing the chainring to a larger one as 86 may be to low for me.

 

[SpikeFC]

I usually have a 52 in the front because of flatlands.

There are sometimes problems with finding cheap 52T, 1 speed cranksets in Poland If you find any they mostly cost from 200-350$ I actually build whole bikes cheaper 50T & 48T are far easier to find in reasonable price ranges. Also You can do it alternatively - look for two speed cranks, and just detach the lower one, but the only cheap ones I could find are those that already have in my Gravel Wagant, and those are heavy, the mostly come with a wedge mount (Finding a BB axle for that right now is nearly impossible), and most of them are so used up, you don't even want to look at them.

 

[horsefarmer]

I will thoroughly test ride the Miyata before changing gearing. I hope I'm happy with it because it was much tinkering to get the new rear derailleur and shifters and existing front derailleur to play nice together, on the bike stand anyways.
I'm in the hate front derailleur club too! But my Mongoose crossway 250, the bike I put the most miles on, came with a 3x7 setup and the front derailleur always shifts perfect.

 

[Grant]

There are sometimes problems with finding cheap 52T, 1 speed cranksets in Poland If you find any they mostly cost from 200-350$ I actually build whole bikes cheaper 50T & 48T are far easier to find in reasonable price ranges. Also You can do it alternatively - look for two speed cranks, and just detach the lower one, but the only cheap ones I could find are those that already have in my Gravel Wagant, and those are heavy, the mostly come with a wedge mount (Finding a BB axle for that right now is nearly impossible), and most of them are so used up, you don't even want to look at them.

I buy a higher end, used 2x crankset for $10 and buy some shorter chainring bolts for $8. I use the large ring on the outside of the cranks.

 

[93EXCivic]

Fidly - that's one thing. having a gear ratio of 1:1 or lower - that's useless when you live like me in almost flat terrain. Also most of the bikes that come to my shop need a new chain every one-two months, while good quality chains on 3xX setups need changeing after at least 3000-6000km. For me a front derailleur is an option, but I can only give up on it if the rear has maximum of 6 speeds.

I get more mileage out of my 1x10 chains then my old 2x9. Fair enough on the low gearing. I use it on my mountain bike to climb stuff enough that I wouldn't want to be without it.

 

[Grant]