Your opinion needed: Production "clunker"

[Lake Meng]

Nobody makes the kind of frame I'm looking for, so I ended up designing my own and will produce my prototype in the near future. I wanted one with disc brake mounts, designed around 26 inch wheels and a 63-100mm front suspension fork, also with clunker geometry for offroad. Would anyone else want a bike like this? If yes, I'm thinking of finding some factory to produce a number of these frames.

If this bike frame goes into production, it'll feature an adjustable length chainstay, replaceable dropout to accommodate 135mm and 142mm mountain bike hubs, and will be made from 6XXX lightweight aluminium. A fat bike version is also being considered.

the frame geometry is attached. In the production model, the dropouts can be mounted on multiple locations on the chainstay, reducing chainstay length by up to 4 inches.

Does this frame look retro enough? or does look like a mountain bike frame with longer chainstays?

Please feel free to make comments.

 

[Fat Willy]

Imho... it looks like downhill mountain bikes that are already available. Doesn't mean there isn't room for another brand out there.


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[Bicycle808]

I think it looks like a quirky DH bike from the 90s more than a klunker. The deal-breakers for me would be:
-aluminum
-suspension fork geometry
-if it's gonna be marketed as a klunker, it'll probably need to be a 3-bar or similar design
-"adjustable chainstay length?" Doesn't sound very klunkish. Are you thinking sliders? swingers? ebb?
-swap-outs for 142 thru-axle? That sort of thing, to me, doesn't jive with the klunker ethos.

I think it's rad that you're looking at a project like this, and just b/c the flavor doesn't suit my somewhat obtuse preferences doesn't mean that others might not like it. A lot of the features you've mentioned will, of course, drive the price up.... and expensive neo-klunks are a hard sell, with so many cheap ones already crowding the market, and with most consumers seeing a klunker as more of a cruiser (cheap) than as a mtb (expensive). There's also the fact that a lot of folks want to go DIY with a vintage frame; the klunker group on FB that i subscribe to is pretty hard on the current-production klunkers.

For me, i like Klunkers to be made of steel, with at least 5" of headtube, full-rigid, track-ends are best (but forward-facing horizontal drop-outs are not a deal breaker) and relaxed geometry. Schwinn made good klunker frames with the pre-war Model C and DX. Worksman makes a decent frame right now, with at least one notable weakness. Transition makes a pretty nice factory complete, even if it's a bit cheesy. And, as long as I'm being honest, the Husky industrial frames can klunk pretty hard; they have a ton of tire clearance, a fairly high BB, and the geometry is a bit steep by traditional klunkin' standards, but the trail manners are pretty impressive. I still prefer the fork options that most all the other contemporary industrial frames allow, though.... the Husky is a road/mini spec (EC30) whereas the others are either oversize 1" or full-bore EC34/ 1.125"....

HTH; I'm hoping you'll get plenty of feedback here...

 

[thunderbeard]

"We the people" make an awesome production klunker.

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[user 135]

Here is a nice discussion regarding Klunker Geometry. http://www.peterverdone.com/breezer-series-2-1980-81/

 

[Lake Meng]

Very insightful feedbacks! Thank you all and keep comments coming!

 

[thunderbeard]

My rule if im building one: old or mid school bmx parts, a few new parts, slapped on to almost any pre 1980 cruiser frame. Productions like WTP use those old frame styles anyway.

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[thunderbeard]

I model them all after my Uncle's Bomber. A true relic, actually used in mid 70's to early 80's. 1961 26" twin straight bar schwinn. The twin bars even bent slightly from carrying back up hill sometimes.

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[RustyGold]

That is a long bike with a large cockpit . Looks kinda dirt jumper-ish.

Jason

 

[Bicycle808]

"We the people" make an awesome production klunker.

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The Avenger? That's a BMX cruiser, for sure...

 

[Bicycle808]

... ...

 

[Bicycle808]

Isn't there an old adage about the bike biz? Something like:
Q: How do you make a million dollars in the cycle industry?
A: Step 1: Start with $2million....

 

[Lake Meng]

All comments are welcome, including criticism. If this bike is ever going to production, it'll have to at least be appealing to some of the riders out there.
Yes the 1st prototype will be built by myself, in a frame building course taught by the mountain bike hall of famer Paul Brodie. the geometry and "looks" will have to be fine tuned to his wisdom. In March, I'll be going to the Taipei Intl Bike show to scout for some OEM Manufacturers. Many manufacturers also do designs and testing, in order to have the production version in compliance with EN and ISO mountain bike safety and strength standards.
I've debated for the longest time with myself whether to add a 2nd toptube, or maybe use a "tank shaped" toptube for the old school look, but I also don't want this frame to have unnecessary weight. I guess I shouldn't have used the word "clunker" when describing this build, as this build wasn't going to be a singlespeed with rear coaster brakes only. In a way, what I'm trying to build is kind of like the bike version of a modern ford mustang or dodge challenger, which have modern era performance yet looks similar to their 1st generation ancestors in the 60s. In today's bike market, there are high end carbon race bikes that completely focus on performance, and chopper bikes like Ruff Cycles that look good and have a relaxed riding posture, but are so damn heavy they can't ride up any small hills. I'm hoping to fill a gap in the middle, and I'm hoping that I'm not the only person in the world who wants such a build. It could be possible that other companies have tried it, only to find that the perfect balance between speed, relaxed posture and appearance doesn't exist. This frame will need more modifications for sure. I'll keep y'all posted, and will hope to have more of your inputs.

 

[Lake Meng]

Many of you guys like vintage steel. The prototype will be made from steel since steel is easier to work with by hand, and no heat treatment is needed like aluminum. One question I have is, does the production model HAVE TO BE STEEL? I understand that high end steel tubing can surpass strength to weight ratio of aluminum and even titanium, but aluminium looks beefier too. Many of the kids nowadays don't know the wonderful properties of steel, and think that steel is a cheaper and inferior material to aluminum when it comes to bike frames.

 

[Bicycle808]

I think that, at this point in history, aluminum is the least-loved material for frames. Typically, it is used only to keep costs down. The performance folks tend to go CF; some of the moneyed astronaut-types still go Ti, the traditionalists go for Fe as do folks who want something that will last for decades and the "elegant" set, they go for steel too. The 6061 frames are big with bikesdirect.com and the most expensive dept store bikes...

 

[horsefarmer]

Isn't there an old adage about the bike biz? Something like:
Q: How do you make a million dollars in the cycle industry?
A: Step 1: Start with $2million....

Kinda funny but the "horse business" has the same saying!

 

[thunderbeard]

I can vouch that fact for both industries. Me and the bikes and my parents and the quarter horse breeding and training for cutting.

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[Bicycle808]

Kinda funny but the "horse business" has the same saying!

Yeah, probably most industries related to hobbies/lifestyles....

 

[RustyGold]

I worship aluminum and chromoly equally... I would like to try Ti and CF, but, can't rationalize the price.

Jason