1960's Öglaend Strada

[FInnRat]

I have pretty much solved the fork issue, but not as smoothly I would wish and there's still things that need something done.

There were several issues.
1. Bearings + cups take so much space its insane, the part which goes on the fork does not fit all the way down as its not designed for this fork. Either that piece or the fork needs to be worked on or then I just don't mind it and solve this otherwise. The upper screw/cup piece (wth its called in English?) is way bigger than needed. The only slimmer one I have has damaged thread.
2. The fork has just too short thread on it, there's nothing I can do about it really. I lack the tools and space to make a such part myself and I'm not even good enough on metalwork.
3. Even if I use tiny enough parts to make more space for the thread on the fork, the spring attachment is too hard to force in place.

So... I solved nearly all this trouble by cutting the frame, the one I used is just a test, I took as much as I could without wrecking the welds which is about 10mm from both sides. (From 150mm to 130mm) The bearing cups aren't even in place as tight as they could and there was still about 8mm extra thread visible after putting it all together. This means that if I shorten the frame by 10-15mm, file it neatly so the bearing cups fit in, it can work. With the parts available for me right now, this seems to be the only option. The other being bearings which take less space which I can't do unless I buy some suitable parts.

What bothers me is that the lowest piece of the bearing, the one on the fork is loose and it doesn't fit the way it should. It stays there ok when the bearings are tightened, but will this be a problem or not? I have no clue.

 

[FInnRat]

Yes, here in Canada, I can relate. We have 4 seasons, fall, winter, spring, and painting season. It just doesn't go well with temps below 15 or 20°c. I failed to complete my March mini build off bike because I had to wait for paint weather. Also, I washed the bike with dish soap and after the rinse, I didn't touch it with my skin to avoid fingerprint oils

Got to love the northern climate... Ours is very much the same as most of Canada. Decent time for outdoors painting is only few months with some luck. I'm not a rich guy, I don't have a decent workshop, let alone a place to paint indoors. But I work at city maintenance, with little luck there's nobody painting stuff there next week. Perhaps I can make good use of my lunch breaks.

Looks like the next step is to modify the frame, I can't see a way around that issue unless I get lucky and find a headset that takes less space which I doubt I will. I hope it wont be a problem if I do that, the welds wont be touched so I guess its ok.

 

[MattiThundrrr]

Can anyone weld where you work? Perhaps you could get them to attach a longer tube to your fork as opposed to cutting the frame tube

 

[FInnRat]

Matti, there's at least two people there who do welding from time to time. So I might have someone to ask for help, I'm just trying to figure this out myself first.

I got an idea which might work. Perhaps I could make an adapter piece between fork screw and the holder. Could that holder be kept in place using a spacer and external stem fastener? I could easily make an adapter, I got that flat iron bar I could use. Quite heavy duty too.

I found a picture, bit like this, but make the adapter shorter and attach it right above the forks lock nut.

EDIT:
I'm really starting to warm up to the idea of making an adapter for the spring. That flat iron bar I have, its quality stuff, omewhat flexible and can be forced, 20mm wide and 5mm thick so I don't think any stress from riding could break it. I'm more afraid about the stem being able to hold. I used to ride rough nearly all the time, never bent a stem regardless. I guess there's only one way to find out if that Humpert stem is a good one.

 

[FInnRat]

Its a learning experience every day. And that's all I got from painting the stripes on the rims today. Experience. There's a compatibility issue, there's not only wrinkling, but removing the tapes tears the spray paint off in huge flakes.

So I'll have to grab sandpaper and remove all that flaky wrinkly crap and redo the black, easy as I don't need to remove all of it. I think I'll do all the decals with the same stuff, Miranol can be bought in almost any color possible, including silver and gold, unfortunately they don't have other metal colors. Luckily I didn't waste much, about half a can of each color and I already have other uses for the spray. This just makes the project take a bit longer. A test is a test is a test and I just learned something new.

I have to say I like some things about my job, its fantastic opportunity to find stolen/forgotten bikes. today I found a Helkama Aino, that's classic style ladies bike, domestic brand, not very old, probably from 90's. But someone had put an age old springy saddle on it which I salvaged in a heartbeat. No idea about the brand, I don't care for the rest, but the springs are going in good use for sure. Now I got two sets of "double" springs... I'm not yet decided about the configuration on the banana saddle, other than having bunch of parts and an idea. But suspended it will be.

EDIT:
This spraypaint backfiring gave me an idea. I will use the same brand paint for the details, rim stripes I will likely to do with old school taping + brush. But as I am an artist, (I did oil painting in art school as my main technique.) why not do the frame decals with a thin brush and go further than typical stripes etc., paint some cool details free hand using a thin brush. I'm not in a hurry as I'm planning to finish the bike for the spring, the season begins here around late April or early May so I got plenty of time.

Now all I have to do is to pick up two colors. The black + dark metallic blue and greenish silver looks nice, but its almost too modern looking. I need to look into what works with black. Cream white does for sure, but I don't want to make a Guinness bike.

 

[MattiThundrrr]

This spraypaint backfiring gave me an idea. I will use the same brand paint for the details, rim stripes I will likely to do with old school taping + brush. But as I am an artist, (I did oil painting in art school as my main technique.) why not do the frame decals with a thin brush and go further than typical stripes etc., paint some cool details free hand using a thin brush. I'm not in a hurry as I'm planning to finish the bike for the spring, the season begins here around late April or early May so I got plenty of time.

Do it! DO IT!!

 

[FInnRat]

Another day that gave me just bad mood and dirty hands. I can't get a bleepin' simplest things done... I don't have the tools for this stuff. I tried and tried to think how to make that adapter piece to fit that darned fork and I can't get it done like this. I thought of using an old saddle fastener for it, but I can't make the adapter thing, the iron bar I have, its just way too much to work on without any decent tools. I don't even have lock pliers, those are at our summerhouse. And there's other stuff I lack too but my English sucks today and I feel so pissed off and disappointed right now that I can't think straight.

I'm starting to get tired of this. Constant setbacks one after another and things taking too long. This will burn out my motivation if I can't get things done. I hate it. Wasted effort, wasted time and wasted money. The story of my life.

I don't know what to do next. I may take a break from the whole thing or something.

 

[Captain Awesome]

I'm still confused about the fitment issue with your fork and why it won't work. I think your English is just fine, but my brain isn't putting the pieces together as you're conveying them

 

[Captain Awesome]

I may take a break from the whole thing or something.

Sometimes that's exactly what you need to do. Walk away and don't make hasty decisions

 

[MattiThundrrr]

Time to hit the reset button

 

[FInnRat]

I'm still confused about the fitment issue with your fork and why it won't work. I think your English is just fine, but my brain isn't putting the pieces together as you're conveying them

The issue is that the frame tube is too long for the bearings and the spring attachment to fit, there is not enough thread on the fork for all that stuff. There's about 7-10mm too little thread there and even that wont really help a lot as the spring goes in an insane angle which makes it very difficult to get in place. And I have some doubts about it working nicely when its in crazy angle like that, although I keep seeing it in pictures. (Few posts up there's the test I did on identical frame by shortening the tube.)

Almost all pics in which I've seen this same fork on 28" bikes, they all seem to have such bearings which take less space. Check out this page, this is the shop I bought the fork from, scroll down a bit and take a look at the pictures there. https://classic-cycle.com/all/1586/springer-fork-28-inch.-without-cantilevers?c=315

Does the spring angle matter? On nearly all smaller bikes with similar fork, the spring is pretty much straight, then on the 28" frames, its always in an angle, does it matter with functionality? I'm a newbie about forks with any sort of suspension so I really don't know much about them. I haven't even rode a bike with one.

Anyway, my conclusion now is there's three ways to make this work.
1. Make an adapter piece and something to attach it to the stem.
2. Cut the frame and make up with the crazy spring angle. (The last thing I want to do is experiment with the frame and possibly ruin the whole thing.)
3. Find such headset so the bearings take less space, thus revealing more thread on the fork and again make up with the crazy spring angle.

Problem with number one is that I lack decent tools for metal work, pretty much all I have is some tools and pure strength and I can tell that's not easy. Been there, done that. Modifying the frame I can easily do, just grab a hacksaw and cut it, then file the edges and do what ever magic I need to fit the bearing cups to it. Finding headset which takes less space is possible I guess, but I have no clue where to look and the last thing I want is to waste more money on this, I've already used up good spray paint only to find out that it doesn't work with the other stuff.

And then, the last option is to use another fork. That would be a total waste as I paid nice money for a nice fork and I want it to work. Otherwise I would just sell it for less what I paid for it and not get the bike I'm planning to build. That's not an option.

 

[FInnRat]

Btw, the Humpert stem I got is awesome. Its NOS from 70's-90's era, no idea of the exact age. They even put decent lube on the screws, I can tell the craftmanship is top shelf quality right away. So far all the parts seem great, excluding the issue with the fork.

EDIT:

Ok, last thing I'm gonna waste money on with this bike. I looked into what the Classic-cycle have for the forks and they do carry headset for 1" forks which others have bought in conjunction with the springer forks they have. If I'm not completely stupid, the schematic looks like its way slimmer setup than the Öglaend stuff I've used so far... https://classic-cycle.com/media/image/3f/a9/29/zu-540_200x200.jpg

This better work, slimmer headset + possibly slightly shortening the frame tube should do it. I'm tired of trying and failing. If I would only have the tools for metal work. Its frustrating as I have the skill to craft parts myself, but I lack decent tools.

 

[FInnRat]

Thinking things over, I'll go and modify the frame too if I need to, that's easy to do, just need to be careful cutting just enough and not too much. I mean what bad could it do as long as the welds for the horizontal tubes are intact? Specially when there's no heating or anything involved. The only thing that might get tricky is to fit the bearing cups. Too bad there wasn't pictures of the headset installed, but the schematic looks promising.

As the spray paint failed, I will get two colors of the same brand I used, one main color and another for details. I was hoping to find some metallic color, there's gold, silver and copper, but my local hardware store do not have those in shelf and for some ridiculous shipping laws, that type of paint cannot be shipped via post, thanks "safety Finland" for that. So I guess I'll go and ask the store if they can get those by order. I thought perhaps black + cream white and some metallic color would be a neat and quite classic combination.

While waiting to get these things, there's fenders to be fitted, saddle to be modified and so on. Too bad I can't start to put the wheels together until I finish the paintjob on the rims. Painting stripes and stuff is way too difficult when the spokes are in place.

I also came up with a a name. Kinda funny one. Not in for the reveal yet, first I need to piece this rust bucket together.

 

[toro1978]

This headset has indeed a huge nut. It may be best to install a new one.
However the page for the fork says it comes with 190mm steerer. But they sell this separately and it is listed as 195mm.
https://classic-cycle.com/all/768/stem-1-195-mm-for-springerfork

 

[Captain Awesome]

As for the alignment of the spring to the perch, that's another beauty of springers. Easily modified with replaceable parts!!

You can just bend the mounting tab to a different angle with a vise, hammer, torch, ............. Also, those perch brackets for the steer tube are pretty thick and they don't necessarily need to be. You can place the bottom side on a sander and thin it out

Grinding the ears back on that horseshoe can change the mounting angle as well

Also, you can take the rubber bushing that the bolt passes through and bevel it to change the angle it interfaces with the horseshoe shaped piece. It might require you to open up the hole that the bolt passes through, but it works

Little tweaks here and there

 

[FInnRat]

That's a funny thing about the old Scandinavian brand headsets, the nut is huge. Very sturdy too I might add, but I think its overkill. Just like every other part, the bearings are humongous. Interesting thing is that my 1951 Pyrkijä had way slimmer headset, all the parts were, including the bearing itself. I wonder if this kind of overly robust build was to ensure the bikes wont break on Nordic gravel roads? Back in the day, and still to this day, in almost all rural areas, the "roads" are really rough, some light fixie would be dead in its tracks in no time, and ofc all the cheap junk people ride these days.

Thanks for the tips! I already thought about trying to modify the "horseshoe" and specially that rubber spacer thing, wouldn't be too much even for my medieval tools. I think thinning out that rubber thing along with shaping it will make things much easier. Even with the modified frame, its so thick that I had to squeeze the spring to fit it. Bit off of the front end and it would work without a hassle. I wish I had a decent vice and a blowtorch.

I was surprised about the thickness of that perch bracket, (Another cool word for a part I had no idea about. ) its slightly over 5mm which is a lot. At least it can withstand quite a force without breakage. I don't think there's a way to ride these parts to break, something else would give in first.

Which reminds me, I had said a lot about the sturdiness of old Nordic bike frames and about the quality of Sachs Torpedo hubs. Those things have good breaks, good enough to bend the frame. I did a test once, not a smart idea, but I wanted to know just how good those breaks are. The break spring got busted, the hub got stuck and the frame got bent. Enough to lock the tire on the chain side. Pretty good breaks.

 

[FInnRat]

This headset has indeed a huge nut. It may be best to install a new one.
However the page for the fork says it comes with 190mm steerer. But they sell this separately and it is listed as 195mm.
https://classic-cycle.com/all/768/stem-1-195-mm-for-springerfork

Yea, I wish I had noticed it before I placed my order.... Its funny, they have this as a separate part, why not standard? Its another $$€€ option if I need to get more thread visible. But I don't think its necessary. Slimmer headset and about 8mm slice off the upper part of the frame will probably make a world of difference.

 

[toro1978]

They also have a "lowrider spring bracket" which is currently out of stock I think, that may be for such cases where the tube is too long, I don't know. I have no experience with them either. Actually I wanted to try that exact fork that you are struggling with, but it was out of stock.

 

[FInnRat]

They also have a "lowrider spring bracket" which is currently out of stock I think, that may be for such cases where the tube is too long, I don't know. I have no experience with them either. Actually I wanted to try that exact fork that you are struggling with, but it was out of stock.

I checked that out earlier, to me it looks exactly the same as the one which came with the fork, but as they're not specifying the measurements, I can't really tell. But it seems strange to sell the same part separately, I think this part is nearly impossible to break or something like that.

I will get this sorted out, no doubt about it. I'm sure that the slimmer headset and some small modification will make it work like a charm. Thinking about the spring angle, I don't think it matters much as long as the fork pivots and the spring isn't pushed in completely.

The main issue is the headset, seems that our oldies have all parts made in such overkill sturdy manner that they take a lot of space. Normally its not a problem, 190mm steerer is easily enough to fit everything, some bikes have a pile of washers/spacers below the lock nut. I had a similar issue with my previous build, I have this https://classic-cycle.com/fork-and-...ic-fuer-28/26-zoll-fahrraeder-verchromt?c=266 on it, had to make adapter pieces to make it go about 30mm higher due to the stem clamp being on the way. That bike has 1930's Swedish Monark fork which takes 21mm stem and all stems of that size I've found use the external clamp to attach which adds about 20mm more stuff on top of the lock nut.

Seems like many of these parts are designed for either smaller frames or to be used with slim headsets. I guess its my fault as my "thing" is the classic 28" frames. They're numerous and very cheap here so its an obvious choice for making ratties. Btw, I got an old 70's combi 24" frame lying around which I haven't even unpacked yet, bought it couple of years ago as it was cheap. That would make an awesome chopper. Perhaps that's something for the next year. After the current one I'll be way wiser.

EDIT:
I guess this thread is becoming a nice tutorial on how not to do things and how to deal with old Nordic bikes if some of you find such curiosity to dirty your hands on. These might turn some heads in the US for sure.

 

[MattiThundrrr]

And just imagine how much love you will have for this machine when it finally all comes together. What you are doing is investing, putting "sweat equity" into your bike.