Bad day...but a learning experience

[BKIN10SECS]

As some of you know I am a newbie. I posted pics of a quick build stingray I did in the Intro section. Well this next project was going to be my spring board into a more involved build. She is a Sears generic 26" cruiser. I envision a low, smooth, sleek cruiser. Well..... a couple of things happened along the way. I started with trying to lean the head tube, first attempt at mig welding....see pics. I also tried my hand at locojoes frame chop....didn't go to bad but far from perfect (couldn't get the seat post to hit that rear fender bracket). Loco....if you view this post would there be any possibility of you posting detailed pics of this procedure, ie. where and how to put the come along straps etc. I sort of know where I went wrong with the head post, some things I would do different next time would be to have more pipe left between cuts and would have inserted a smaller diameter pipe inside frame tube for structural support and welding surface. My welding....well needs to be worked on big time ...I think I might have done better with simple brazing...maybe, suggestions. Anyways...I have posted some pics....any advice will be greatly appreciated. As I said, today might not have turned out the way I wanted to, but I did learn a couple of things. I hope to hear from some of you to help me better my execution of some of these techniques. Thanks
Top tube.

Bottom tube.

Rear view with frame chop.

Side view.

 

[Galtbacken]

Looks like the amps might be a little high. Try turning down the power just a little and give it another go! When I weld together tubes of different thicknes, I aim slightly more to the thicker tube to make sure that one gets enough heat. I'm no welding expert and I'm still learning myself, but that has seemed to work well when I've tried it. Keep on welding things together and I'm sure you'll get the feel for it!
The stance on the bike looks really nice!

 

[BKIN10SECS]

Thanks for the input Galtbacken. The mig welding unit I have is a 90 amp from Harbor Freight Tools. I do not think there is any way to turn down the amps. There is a min and max switch on the unit only. I have it set on the min setting at all times. If I may Galtbacken, when you weld what type of welding do you use. Have you ever brazed before? I have not givin up on this frame, I will make some adjustments and try again. Do you know if there is anything I might be able to use on that bottom tube to fill the holes. Once again Thank you for your input.

 

[Galtbacken]

Oh you're welcome, glad if I'm able to be of any help! Still consider myself a beginner so I'm not confident my methods are the best there is, but they've seemed to work ok for me so far.

I guess my welder is something similar but it has 4 different output power settings and I think the max amp is 130. It's an old machine, nothing fancy and I use fluxcore wire. If you're already welding at the lowest power setting it's probably just a matter of keeping on welding and trying different ways of doing it. Maybe trying out different adjustments to the wire feed speed? Or how quickly or slowly you move the weld along... I'm sure you'll get the hang of it!
When I weld thin metal, like biketubes or sheetmetal (for chainguards, lights etc.), I've found that one easy way that works good for me is to weld like a continuos line of "spotwelds". I'd weld in one spot and observe the wetting (hope that's the right term for it) of the metal, release the trigger on the handle and move the tip of the wire a millimeter or so and weld in that spot before the material cools down too much and continue like that. That way I can control the heat so that the joint (that word just feels wrong! :lol: ) is strong (and that just made "joint" sound even more wrong!! :shock: ) and at the same time that it doesn't get so hot that it burns holes in the tube.

No, I've never brazed but I'd like to try it sometime!

I'd grind or file the weld down on the bottom tube and make a new weld, but maybe some of the more experienced welders here on the forum know better what to do.

A friend of a friend said once when he'd just decided to learn to play an instrument, the saxophone I believe it was: "I'll give it thirty years and if I don't know how to play by then, I'll give it up."

 

[BKIN10SECS]

Once again....Thanks, the tip on the movement of the torch sounds like a winner and I will be trying it in the morning. I have not been on this board long but I have seen your builds and will be following your Fairlady build (especially the welding :lol: ) and I do know that you know what you are talking about. I am going to work on these issues and will keep you updated. Thanks

 

[LBK]

Galt's advice is good set your amperage lower, make sure the wire is hitting the thicker of the two pieces, avoid having the wire hit the edges of the metal, focus on making circles as you go, and you might need to increase your travel speed. I would practice running beads on flat metal then work your way up to more difficult welds.

 

[aka_locojoe]

Well I don't have any more pics and it's been so long since I did it I really don't remember any details. I think I just placed the strap around the headtube and in or around the drop outs and that was it. Geometry of your bike seems to be a little different than what I worked with (straight chain stays). Maybe that's what's making it difficult. Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[udallcustombikes]

I did a loco joe chop on my Ratz bike that I built for my youngest. I hooked the rachet straps into the rear drop outs, one hook on each side. Then I took the "loop" of strap over the seat tube above the top tube, so my straps went along the seat stays. And don't use one of those sissy 1" straps, I used a 2 1/2" or 3" that really gives you some serious pulling strength. Hope that helps.

And welcome!

 

[sensor]

if youre welder cant be adjusted to different settings....you can control how hot/cool you get the puddle by what angle you hold the torch and the distance and by the direction of travel....also you dont really want to try to run a bead on bike frames since theyre thin and will warp/blow through if youre not careful....youll need to stitch weld them....if you want me to go into further detail shoot me a pm
good luck

 

[BKIN10SECS]

WOW......Thank you guys so much. I feel so much more comfortable and feel that I have so much more ammo to proceed with completing this project. Thanks a lot fellas!

 

[MonsterMetal]

Sensor is right on... The farther you let the wire stick out of the tip the fewer amps of current transferred to the work by your welder.. You can of course hold it TOO far back, about a 1 1/4 is max.. And by "stitch welding" they really mean "dot" welding (tis called stitch but its more like dot, dot ,dot) that allows the material to cool and shrink as you make the weld...

 

[old school 64]

If it helps, I put a bar through the rear stays and put the ratcheting strap around that and anchored the other end around the seat post..and with the welding, the stitch or constant tack works the best, and bounce around to let the puddle cool, and if you get "holes" I tend to "horseshoe" weld it and alternate from side to side to let the puddle cool..my cantilever chop came out cool (thanks locojoe) in fact I have a guy going to bring me his Huffy for the chop after seeing mine..Hope it helps ?

 

[icyuod2]

obviously theres good and bad welding techniques, but theres always more than one way to go about things.
for example..... when my budy craig starts blowning holes through thin metal, he doesn't turn down the amps, he cranks them up. he compensates with the speed at which he welds, but it seems to work like a charm for him.

practice on scrap tubing and really get to know your machines limitations. the rest will come with time.

 

[g-ratter]

One of the biggest problems beginners seem to do is not get a tight fit between parts. If there is any kind of gap the chance of blow through goes up. Get as close to perfect fit as you can.

 

[g-ratter]

As I was welding up a fender for my build I thought of another problem beginners make. That is using the wrong wire size. Most of our work on bikes calls for .023. If you use the .030 this will increase the heat and thus more chance of blow through.
One more thing. CLEAN METAL!!. No paint,rust,oil,dirt of any kind.

 

[BKIN10SECS]

Thank you everyone for the info. I have been welding, welding, welding.... did i mention I've been welding :shock:. It has been a learning experience for sure.... Thanks again everyone.

 

[diceman]

I,m not a great welder iether . but the best thing ( a not so experienced welder can possibly have ) is a decent auto darkening helmet . i,ve seen peoples welds at work increase in quality 100 percent just by using a good auto darkening helmet ( with nice clean lenses )

 

[old school 64]

I have never had any good experiences with auto helmets..can never seem to get them to react fast enough ? Been welding production for like 27 years, and guess it all rolls back to "Old School" for me..LOL..for the welding end..practice..practice..practice..@ 27 years, I still learn new stuff on a daily basis...have fun with it !! ..and no matter what, no matter how bad you think you messed it up..just grind it off and start all over..that is the beauty of it !!

I,m not a great welder iether . but the best thing ( a not so experienced welder can possibly have ) is a decent auto darkening helmet . i,ve seen peoples welds at work increase in quality 100 percent just by using a good auto darkening helmet ( with nice clean lenses )