BUILD OFF #7 DISCUSSION

[kingfish254]

Funky, how do you find something like that in the trash?????

 

[yoothgeye]

That looks almost exactly how my BFK was when it was found in the trash:

Then the next day (after a copper scrubby, WD40, and a front tube):

 

[Xcruiser]

Funky, how do you find something like that in the trash?????

No kidding! My neighbors just throw away trash.

Your neighbors can come move in next to me!

 

[Heavy Pedal]

I've always wondered... If this is supposed to be a Rat Rod style of a build off, why are people going out and buying new tires, rims, seats, handlebars and other parts to build their bikes? To me it's more of a build with what you got type of a deal. Painting and customizing existing bikes is great! It's just when you start buying all the parts to build it that makes me wonder.

 

[Houndog]

To me RatRod means ,you have made it cool to you...Ignore the labels and build a cool bike you like...

 

[FunkyStickman]

To me, it's completely a matter of function. If I'm building a bike thats going to be ridden, it beds needs to be solid... Not everybody trusts 30 year old rusted spokes, or likes old seats. Other than that, yeah, new stuff isn't really rat. Sometimes it's just more practical.

If I were building a real rat rod, I'd put newer running gear in it, because you better believe it's going to get driven!

 

[yoothgeye]

Money and new parts vs. old is something we will NEVER agree on here, check out rule #11:

11. KEEP IT CHEAP...remember...IT'S A RAT ROD!!!!

Now, when terms are used to describe money that don't have a dollar amount people are going to argue. To me "cheap" means next to free, to some "cheap" means the price of a new Huffy Cranbrook, and still to others "cheap" means the price of a mid level Trek mountain bike from a bike shop. I believe money might get some people attention when it comes time to vote and hundreds of people come in here to vote who haven't watched the builds and it has bothered me in the past but I just had to learn to let it go, becuase in the end I like looking at all the cool bikes.

 

[Critter1]

To me, it's completely a matter of function. If I'm building a bike thats going to be ridden, it beds needs to be solid... Not everybody trusts 30 year old rusted spokes, or likes old seats. Other than that, yeah, new stuff isn't really rat. Sometimes it's just more practical.

If I were building a real rat rod, I'd put newer running gear in it, because you better believe it's going to get driven!

Well said. Mixing old and new is a great marraige...

 

[mrfritz]

Money and new parts vs. old is something we will NEVER agree on here, check out rule #11:

11. KEEP IT CHEAP...remember...IT'S A RAT ROD!!!!

Now, when terms are used to describe money that don't have a dollar amount people are going to argue. To me "cheap" means next to free, to some "cheap" means the price of a new Huffy Cranbrook, and still to others "cheap" means the price of a mid level Trek mountain bike from a bike shop. I believe money might get some people attention when it comes time to vote and hundreds of people come in here to vote who haven't watched the builds and it has bothered me in the past but I just had to learn to let it go, becuase in the end I like looking at all the cool bikes.

And there is the issue of time, your time. The bikes on this site are amazing works of art and fabrication. Many of the artists/fabricators work with a skill level worth AT LEAST $50/hr. A 100hrs of work at that billing rate is $5000. Most of us are scroungers too, and although we rejoice at the $10 CL or thrift find how many hours were actually spent looking for each of these.

For me there is a joy in recycle, reuse, resurrect. A satisfaction in making what might be old or appear to be of no value into a piece of functional mechanical art that is valuable and can move me or mine. Sometimes that vision requires a lot of time finding/cleaning/restoring and sometimes that vision requires buying parts.

I don't know if half the bikes on here are rat rods. I know I don't consider the majority of what I work on a rat rod. BUT they are all personal expressions of functional mechanical art and I know that even looking at them makes me HAPPY. If we're in this to manifest and define a style/cost/effort/skill category to pigeon hole or exclude then I think we're reducing the FUN. And if we're not in it for FUN what's the point?

The build off rules are a pretty broad box that I think has room for a lot of FUN with really minimal reduction of creativity.

 

[JoKeR63]

I've always wondered... If this is supposed to be a Rat Rod style of a build off, why are people going out and buying new tires, rims, seats, handlebars and other parts to build their bikes? To me it's more of a build with what you got type of a deal. Painting and customizing existing bikes is great! It's just when you start buying all the parts to build it that makes me wonder.

Yea, this is a tough one. First off, People spend money on wheelsets, seats, etc., because it works, that's what people vote for. It's a path of evolution that any contest follows. My old sport of BattleBots suffered a predicable fate when money got involved. It went from "My Buddy" dolls on Big Wheels to $20,000 high horsepower killing machines. But guess who was having more fun? It quickly got out of hand, and boring. When the ratings slipped, CC quickly pulled the plug.

It's just easy for something like this to snowball. Now if we start voting for the Ratty bikes, and shun the "fat wallet" bikes you will see less $400 wheelsets because that no longer gets votes.

Personally, I don't see it happening. And it probably shouldn't. Without constrictive rules this is what happens, we should probably just let nature take it's course.
I'm saving 1 vote this year for best "True Rat", something that's not high budget, and uses "Rat" building techniques like a masked off crank. (you know who you are!).

 

[mrflagman]

I've always wondered... If this is supposed to be a Rat Rod style of a build off, why are people going out and buying new tires, rims, seats, handlebars and other parts to build their bikes? To me it's more of a build with what you got type of a deal. Painting and customizing existing bikes is great! It's just when you start buying all the parts to build it that makes me wonder.

Hot Rod builds would be more appropriate for the style of bikes built here. Rat Rod is more a name than style.

This is Rat Rods version of his vision for the site and build offs.

" I'll chime in a little on this discussion.

My intentions when starting the site was to create a community of folks who enjoyed building and creating cool cruiser bikes with that hot rod look and feel. Middleweights and heavyweight bikes were what I had in mind as the basis for the projects that would be built. On the Schwinn forum many folks would refer to their bikes that were built from different pieces and parts as Rat Rods. Since it was a commonly recognized term I decided to go with that name and figured it would help the site's ratings in the search engines. Initially I wanted hotrodbikes.com, but a motorcycle company already owned that domain name. I also felt that Rat Rod was a good term becuase you instantly knew that the bikes on the site would not be nut and bolt resto jobs and it gave the place a little attitude.

Now over the past couple of years we have seen that the hobby isn't just limited to heavyweights and middleweight bikes. Some folks have managed to build cool rat rod bikes out of lightweight bikes and even out of cheap mountain bikes from Wal-Mart. I could be strict about it all and filter everything out that doesn't fit my definition, but who am I to stifle the movement. As long as you built it, looks cool and has that vintage style to it, we're good.

In regards to the build offs, they were started to increase traffic/activity on the site and give the members a semi-structured environment to build a cool bike. Personally I'd like to keep them very simple and not create a bunch of classes and rules. I think when stuff like this starts to get too complicated then the fun goes away quickly. I'd really like to eliminate the voting part of the build offs altogether. I think most folks would agree that the fun part is watching the build diaries and then seeing all of the finished bikes at the end. I guess the element of competition may drive some folks to push the envelope on their builds, but maybe there could be another incentive to voting like...your bike could end up in a calendar, poster or desktop wallpaper.

So my recommendation is, don't get too hung up on definitions and semantics. Just build cool bikes and have fun. "

 

[dogdart]

Remember what it says in rule 10 " ...just build a cool bike and have fun."
Some rusty / patina bikes are built with rare parts that cost or are valued @ way more than shiny new parts . I think it's more about the vision , expensive doesn't always add up to a COOL bike . And , that's what I vote for , regardless of cost 8) 8) 8)

 

[Xcruiser]

For me-Im always cool with whatever someone builds,new,old okay you do youre thing ill do mine(wich is both).But in the last two RRBO's there is an obvious pattern in the top 3 winners and MAYBE thats what folks are seeing,i dunno.Ill bet there is 700.00 to 1000.00 in rechrome parts on one of those bad boys!Its possibly very disheartening to the average budget builder.
I had intentions of a fancy paintjob and some modern touches with Hiawhatthe? but the poor condition of the frame sent me a different direcition and Im gonna roll with it the best I can and do my best to give the big boys a run for their money.I think in the end working with what you have and having tons of fun is most important!

In closing id like to say----Rock on Stripped and Teased & Fenderless Freddie LOL

 

[Xcruiser]

It gets my vote as probably the coolest bike on the planet.sensational.

 

[yoothgeye]

Go ahead and give it a whirl.

Give it a "whirl"? Are you implying that you hand spun those springs? :shock: :mrgreen:

 

[kingfish254]

There is another reason why people put fat rims and tires and other new items on their builds, and that is because those items are are cool and the person wants a cool bike. You see it going on during the non BO builds as well. It is not just about trying to spend to most money to get votes. It's not like the grand prize is ten grand or something.
It really starts to sound like a lot of whining when people worry and complain about "$400 wheelsets" and such.

Just "Git to Buildin'" and HAVE FUN!!!!

 

[mrfritz]

I've got some premium components in a lot of my builds, but if I don't count my time looking for them I haven't spent much money. Last weekend I found a nexus 8 drilled for 28 holes. $40 and perfect for my "ECO Freak" folding bike, also found a fork that would fit my 28h hub motor that I got for $35. I've certainly gotten more than my fair share of nexus 7/8 coasters for under $100. The girvin I got for $20 because I was lucky to be at bikeworks right after someone dropped it off. I've gotten some great parts and tires both used and brand new here. Local CL has gotten me several bikes for between $20-100. Today I bought a set of titanium cantilever brakes for $40, because yea.. my road bike NEEDS titanium brakes... Big tires are really common, someone buys them, they don't fit and then they end up dumping them. Walmart has sold me a couple base bikes for less than $150.

I love the bike above in this thread, but if I had to go buy the parts required to make another one it would cost a FORTUNE! I don't think you can spend your way to a winner in this build off or any build off that I've seen on this site. At the same time I think most if not all of us would have to admit we spend more time and money than makes sense for any reason on other than it's FUN! Though isn't that really the only good reason to do anything?

Oh and what's not ratty about a rohoff hub or NuVinci!? LOL Seems kind of like asking what's not ratty about a GMC 6-71 blower and a big block in rat rod car doesn't it?

The winners in that thread are all AMAZING works of mechanical art that share a clean functionality. That comes from creativity not money no matter how much they spent. This build is FUN that's why I'm building now. I would be building it even if there wasn't the challenge of it, but I really like seeing so many bikes coming together at once.

BTW: If anyone wan't to use a rohoff in a build so we can have a wheelset that costs over $1500 I'm down with it! I'm also willing to bet that the votes for the bike would have been the same if it were using a coaster hub.

 

[yoothgeye]

At the risk of being banned, the craze that began what we now title as "rat rod" was guys spending money on the parts of their cars that they wanted to spend money on, and it usually happened to be the engine. Start with a dump, drop a big shiny powerful engine in it, throw on some new wheels and nice tires, and at point there was no money left for nice interiors, high dollar paint, and tons of chrome accessories, so throw a blanket over the seat, make sure the rust is cleaned and covered with primer and get Sal to throw on some pinstriping for a bottle of liquor.

Spend money on what you want, it's your ride, nobody will get kicked out for spending their own money. It's all up for interpretation and the votes will prove it, because I promise... PROMISE, the winner won't get all the votes. :wink:

 

[dragnusa]

Is it disheartening to me to see people spending a ton of money on their build off bike. Yeah to a point, but when its all said and done will their bike be sitting next to my bike on the street most likely not. so what does it matter. I dont have a lathe or a welder or heck even a sandblaster but im going to build the best bike my mind can come up with with what I have.

 

[Rockit!]

Well the thing about the build-off is that everybody has a chance to do what they're good at, and are free to use what they have to give them an advantage. For some people it's creativity, some people have access to awesome shops, and some have lots of money. The rules do say keep it cheap, but as was already mentioned, "cheap" is a relative term.