BUILD OFF #9 RULES EXPERIMENT?

[The Renaissance Man]

Or they have to create a bolt on way that they may or may not be totally happy with having to do.

That describes part of my scheme. I had already been trying to work out how to work around something that would be simple to weld and would not even be seen because it's so small.

The new rules would make things much easier for me.

 

[user 135]

How about 2 Divisions within the proposed rules? Under $200 and Unlimited $$$.

It would be an Honor system for those building in the Under$200 class. Itemized receipts would not be required but expect to get called out,if you slap on new wheels, new tires and a Brooks saddle. They do this is some motorsports racing with the Limited Class, except they actually can buy your engine.

 

[Bendix]

How about 2 Divisions within the proposed rules? Under $200 and Unlimited $$$.

It would be an Honor system for those building in the Under$200 class. Itemized receipts would not be required but expect to get called out,if you slap on new wheels, new tires and a Brooks saddle. They do this is some motorsports racing with the Limited Class, except they actually can buy your engine.

Now THAT is an interesting idea.

Didn't Fixed Gear Gallery do a build off type thing with an itemized budget requirement?

 

[ADRNLN]

I'm open to a rule of you MUST start with a factory frame. Just no scratch-built frames (sub category). Must use existing bottom bracket, steering tube, seat stay. Every other mod is fair game.

 

[American Vintage Bicycle Supply]

I like Simple

 

[fordsnake]

Simplifying the rules is opened for interpretation. If I read Steve’s proposal correctly….there’s nothing that prevents anyone from having a bunch of their friends build the bike for them?

Sometimes its best to leave well enough alone!

 

[fordsnake]

For me I see the point of both sides, but there is the few that get thrown into those great scratch builds. They only want modify a frame enough to fit a tire that wouldn't normally go on the frame they want to use. So they either have to except this and know they won't get many votes most likely (which to many doesn't really mater). Or they have to create a bolt on way that they may or may not be totally happy with having to do.

That’s the rub? Rules are merely constraints. The challenge is to find solutions that bend the rules! That’s what I loved about last year’s dual competition…you were provoked to think outside the box and push boundaries. If you decided to play in the “traditional” playground you were encouraged to play but with certain restrictions. And for those who wanted to take a torch to their frame…Steve removed the creative handcuffs and offered you the AG playground, allowing you to modify your build without restrictions.

You have a choice, why change it?

 

[American Vintage Bicycle Supply]

Simplifying the rules is opened for interpretation. If I read Steve’s proposal correctly….there’s nothing that prevents anyone from having a bunch of their friends build the bike for them?

Sometimes its best to leave well enough alone!

Really there is nothing stopping anyone from doing that anyways.

This should be a fun time. At the end of the day...it's just a friendly competition. No money, no national fame.

 

[raggedjim]

I thought the addition of the “anything goes” category last year was a brilliant initiative too. But like with anything new, it takes time to embrace it…time to seed as a concept!

For instance the very first RRBBO only had 19 entries, but last year there were a total of 81 “traditional” builds and 26 “anything goes” builds, an impressive total of 107 final entries!

I personally prefer the two category competition…it offers everyone a unique playground to play in; thus allowing those with a high level skill-set the freedom to build without restriction, or for those who are not the accomplished welders or painters but have the imagination, to creatively modify and explore with add-ons or bolt-on parts!

I’m sure, once the word spreads about the AG category, the “Traditional” category will take a back seat. Attached are some rather awesome scratch builds to illustrate my point.




I fear collapsing the two categories into one no-holds-barred build off will eventually diminish the interest of many members in the future who feel their skills cannot compete with the professionals and talented painters, body men and welders?

Well, I stayed out last year, mostly due to other interest getting in the way, but also due to the fact of "no weld" on the traditional frames. I love all bikes but can't see a bike like Lococycle being in the same category as the bikes pictured above just because of some minor welding. I don't weld as a professional and don't think it gives me any special advantage (obviously not, since you have won twice with no welding!) but I seem to gravitate toward gently modified traditional bikes.

I will continue to build bikes but can't devote almost 3 months of effort to build something I feel limited on by the traditional "no weld" rule.

Good luck to all, Rg

 

[kingfish254]

I will continue to build bikes but can't devote almost 3 months of effort to build something I feel limited on by the traditional "no weld" rule.

Good luck to all, Rg

If the proposed simplified rules go in place, then there won't be a "no weld" rule.

 

[raggedjim]

This is why I voted YES!

Rg

 

[dracothered]

Well, I stayed out last year, mostly due to other interest getting in the way, but also due to the fact of "no weld" on the traditional frames. I love all bikes but can't see a bike like Lococycle being in the same category as the bikes pictured above just because of some minor welding. I don't weld as a professional and don't think it gives me any special advantage (obviously not, since you have won twice with no welding!) but I seem to gravitate toward gently modified traditional bikes.

I will continue to build bikes but can't devote almost 3 months of effort to build something I feel limited on by the traditional "no weld" rule.

Good luck to all, Rg

Here is the real kick, if the rules were kept the same as last year, except to allow minor frame mods. This would include cutting and welding, but if Steve judges the mods as putting it in the anything goes category then the build would have to except that or use their one frame change.

This way we get to keep both build styles. Minor mods don't give any builder an advantage over another builder, but radical mods do in some ways.

Besides what really is a traditional rat rod building, it is taking what you have and making it work which include a torch and welding or brazing.

 

[fordsnake]

I absolutely agree this should be a FUN TIME!

And after reading RaggedJims post, I now see Steve's dilemma; members feeling their creativity is thwarted by rules? The last thing needed are members discouraged from participating because of limitations!

 

[Rat Rod]

I think I remember an email from Uncle Stretch one time asking me why I was making it so hard on myself by trying to keep a set of rules in place for these build offs.

I think my decision has pretty much been made and it looks like we'll give my proposed plan a run this year. If it turns out to be a horrible disaster then we'll know that changes need to be made.

Thanks to everyone for the discussion and input on this!

 

[American Vintage Bicycle Supply]

That's a great closing statement! Start planning!