Cut and Thread spokes?

[Karate Chicken Industries]

I've paid $80 for a 26" rim to be laced and trued to a vintage hub, including new spokes. I thought it was reasonable. I do not like building wheels.

That is a good price.

 

[Ulu]

The cost of the tools is an investment in my fun, unless I buy junk. I will spend more for better tools and better parts.

My only issue is that I don’t have a local parts source. They have to send out for the spokes.

I don’t know the brand best tools or parts for this, but I was never planning to have someone else lace my wheels.

 

[us56456712]

Don’t try and thread your own spokes you wont be able to use them. You need a professional level shop tool for that at around $5000 new. Try and find no name spokes. This saves a lot but it’s still expensive. A Hozan is no good. A Hozan will work good enough to replace a few spokes. You have to buy spokes or reuse old ones.

 

[threeforks]

My first VW, in 1966, a '57 small window, cost $200

 

[LeMad Hatter]

My LBS wants $3 each for DT Swiss spokes and a flat rate of $100 to lace a wheel. Sorry, but I can't spend $320 to have a pair of wheels laced, on top of already buying the rims and hubs. It would have come up to almost $700 for my wheel set. Did you know that you can cut the non threaded end of the spokes, make an S bend at the appropriate desired length, and lace them like that?

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

PS.
Even at $.70 per that is not cheap.
And then to build 48 spoke wheels, it adds up quick.

We are not much for thrifty bike shops close by here.
The closest shop wants like $ 1.75 per.

When I bought stainless spokes for those blue wheels, now on the RedGoose tandem,
spokes were $ .25 per.

Those wheels, now over 35 years old, are still true and the spokes still shine.

I guess that's part of the trouble with growing old. It's easy to keep living in the past.

Porkchopzz oneBay has great deals on Stainless spokes and nipples. I am getting 75 194mm spokes for about $30 shipped and 100 Stainless nipples at about $17 shipped and they are Taiwan, not China made which helps the quality.
He has other lengths as well.

 

[threeforks]

Thanks,
That price makes it worth buying double, enough for 4 wheels.
Can I order over the phone ?
Not internet.

 

[Captain Awesome]

Thanks,
That price makes it worth buying double, enough for 4 wheels.
Can I order over the phone ?
Not internet.

https://www.porkchopbmx.com/search/Spokes/

Can email them via the website or call them at the Cartersville shop

https://www.cartersvillebicycle.com/service/

 

[threeforks]

Thanks for that tip.

 

[Ulu]

As we’re on the subject, If I buy an 11 gauge spoke, is it going to be the same diameter whether it’s stainless or carbon steel? I’m thinking that since the threads are rollformed and those metals have different hardnesses, that they might start with different diameters.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

Gauge is a dimensional measurement, so it would not be an 11 gauge spoke if it was a different diameter.
The thread rolling process should keep the threads the same, although I am not sure if there are different spoke nipple threads to compensate.
I have a chart that converts spoke and wire gauge to inch and metric measurements I can post shortly.
Rob

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

Wire and spoke dimension chart.

 

[Ulu]

Thank you.

I do understand what gauge means in terms of steel & other metals. I specified it on my drawings for about 45 years.

There are multiple standards.

What I didn’t know is what standards bicycle makers used.

So if I order stainless steel spokes they will be the same diameter?

 

[rickpaulos]

A die for cutting spoke threads? for what size spoke? They come in different gauges. measured in SWG, metric or decimal inches depending on the manufacturer and era. cutting threads means removing material which makes it weaker. Most spokes break at the end of the threads or pop the head off. Cutting threads would make the spokes far weaker at their weakest spot.

Spoke threaders. The Hozan is the cheapest. $120 plus heads. I own a couple with several size heads for different spoke gauges. I've used them to thread a few hundred spokes. It's very tedious and time consuming. The hand crank will wear a hole in the palm of your hand if you do more than a few per day. I took the hand crank off one to use a cordless drill to turn it. The way the head is designed, you will never achieve a factory looking threading with one of these. The Hozan doesn't work very well with stainless steel spokes. It makes very shallow threads that will just pull out of the nipple. I takes a couple minutes per spoke. So a set of 36 is an easy hour of shop time. $2/per at your local shop is loosing them money. Cyclo Tools is a cheaper copy at $75 plus $50 per head.

There are several high end spoke rollers. The Phil Wool is the gold standard.
https://phil-wood-co.myshopify.com/collections/spoke-machine
Many thousands of $ if you can even find one for sale. There are several ebay sellers who have them and will sell you spokes in nearly any length you need for a bargain price considering their outlay for the machine and the spokes and their labor. There are a couple of others, Morizumi ($4k) and another that slips my memory.


I have un-spoked hundreds of wheels with bent or cracked rims or missing hub parts so I have a sufficient supply of spokes. It's an easy to while watching tv task. Local bike coops often have a surplus of wheels as a parts source. Reusing decent spokes is not an issue. Old rusty spokes just get cut out and put in the metal recycle bin.

Spoke nipples are made of steel, brass or aluminum. The good ones are chrome plated brass. Steel nipples will rust up pretty quick and aluminum are quite weak. A magnet will sort them out. Of course nipples come different lengths and in different gauges.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

Thank you.

I do understand what gauge means in terms of steel & other metals. I specified it on my drawings for about 45 years.

There are multiple standards.
View attachment 197546
What I didn’t know is what standards bicycle makers used.

So if I order stainless steel spokes they will be the same diameter?

No need to be offended man.
Yes there are different gauge standards, but in the USA one rarely sees Imperial or Birmingham gauge.
If it is a concern, ask the seller what wire gauge standard the spokes are made by. Nobody here has that answer for every spoke manufacturer.
This chart was posted as a guide to SWG, which to my knowledge is what is used for most spoke wire.
Also the thousandths of an inch difference in sizes between those different gauges will not change your life or the integrity of the wheel.
Whatever gauge standard you buy, make sure you get their spoke nipples as well and this whole topic will not matter.
Rob

 

[Ulu]

No need to be offended man.
Yes there are different gauge standards, but in the USA one rarely sees Imperial or Birmingham gauge.
If it is a concern, ask the seller what wire gauge standard the spokes are made by. Nobody here has that answer for every spoke manufacturer.
This chart was posted as a guide to SWG, which to my knowledge is what is used for most spoke wire.
Also the thousandths of an inch difference in sizes between those different gauges will not change your life or the integrity of the wheel.
Whatever gauge standard you buy, make sure you get their spoke nipples as well and this whole topic will not matter.
Rob

I’m not offended. We’re having a friendly discussion here.

I’m just kind of a stoic guy. Almost 5 decades in the engineering business has made me so.

I don’t wax poetic much, but if I say thank you, I mean it bro. If you showed up on my porch with a flat tire, I’d have a patch for you; and you gotta go past the beer fridge to get to the air compressor…

Gentlemen, This is my first venture into Chinese made bicycles. I have no idea what standard to expect for things like their wire spokes. I’m hoping they just copied what we do.

I knew there would be some common knowledge regarding bicycle spoke practices and this would be the place to find out.

I have re-laced wheels before, but I have never once bought brand new spokes.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

I’m not offended. We’re having a friendly discussion here.

I’m just kind of a stoic guy. Almost 5 decades in the engineering business has made me so.

I don’t wax poetic much, but if I say thank you, I mean it bro. If you showed up on my porch with a flat tire, I’d have a patch for you; and you gotta go past the beer fridge to get to the air compressor…

Gentlemen, This is my first venture into Chinese made bicycles. I have no idea what standard to expect for things like their wire spokes. I’m hoping they just copied what we do.

I knew there would be some common knowledge regarding bicycle spoke practices and this would be the place to find out.

I have re-laced wheels before, but I have never once bought brand new spokes.

Cool man, I like your attitude.
On my end, I guess I have gotten used to the know it all attitudes over at The CABE. I had to have a moderator put one of them on mutual ignore for the overly rude attitude he showed every time I posted something and was not in 100% agreement with him.
Here everyone has been cool to me so far and I honestly did not expect that. I thought I would've fit in better over there since I restore musclebikes and am an anal pain over correct parts.
My Hawg Wylde Class 1 Build Off bike is as far toward the other side that I have probably gone so far.
Thanks for the response and your excellent attitude. It got you a space on my Following list.
Same to you on the Tire Patch (or complete overhaul) man.
(I also do cars and motorcycles) so they are on the table as well.

 

[Ulu]

I am not familiar with CABE, but I’ve heard it mentioned here before.

Since I’m just building things for myself here I’m really not concerned with how historically correct anything might be. It’s all about how much fun I’m having.

I like this place because folks have such a broad view about what is possible. That’s important when you’re riding bicycles that are built out of the parts of other random bicycles.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

I know, I built some wild stuff as a high school kid. I am duplicating some of those bikes for myself now.

 

[RustySprockets]

Cool man, I like your attitude.
On my end, I guess I have gotten used to the know it all attitudes over at The CABE.

While I appreciate the vast level of knowledge and expertise found at the CABE, I'm also among the first to concede that a few of their members can be...a little snooty. If I ever come across that way, feel free to slap me because no one person holds a monopoly on good advice.