Cut and Thread spokes?

[threeforks]

As I see it, besides the vast variety of bikes and builds here at RRB,
there is good info and advice shared if one takes the time to read it.

Thanks for all your answers.

After considering everything, and even though I try to spend as little as possible to build bikes,
Buying new spokes, the right size, with threads on them, looks like the cheapest way to less trouble.
I don't do the quotes, but am reminded that cutting threads means loosing some metal,
not the best when starting out with a thin spoke.

I will still use "rescued" spokes that are the correct size.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

I dont believe you ever have been that way to me man, and it is the people like you that ask for forgiveness before they even do anything that make thise other people bearable.
NAH, I can't bear them even then. I do appreciate members like you that make it a good experience to be here.
another member in the following list.
Thanks, Rob

 

[threeforks]

Thanks oldbikeguy. Kind words.
I am stuck with who I am.
Like I said in my "introduction" thread, "it's too late to be somebody else.

 

[RustyGold]

As we’re on the subject, If I buy an 11 gauge spoke, is it going to be the same diameter whether it’s stainless or carbon steel? I’m thinking that since the threads are rollformed and those metals have different hardnesses, that they might start with different diameters.

I'll not speak with bicycle knowledge on this, but as a machinist. The material size isn't going to be changed to compensate for hardness...the roller pressure, or a different fit die, will be used to produce proper threads.

A trivia tid bit. It isn't the removal of material that makes cut threads weaker than rolled...it is that you are interrupting the crystalline grain structure instead of compressing it.

Same holds true for machined parts vs. forged parts.

 

[Ulu]

This is off-topic but in the construction business we used to reject rollform threaded anchor bolts for concrete work because the shank diameter was smaller than a bolt with cut threads.

This is an advantage on a spoke where you want the shank to be as light as possible. To get appropriate cut threads you need a fatter spoke.

Because stainless steel is usually softer, but it work hardens quickly, I thought the standards for stainless spokes might be different.

One thing is certain however, I don’t want to go into the spoke manufacturing business.

I looked at an online spoke calculator, but it won’t do the fat wheel/hub combo….

<edit> yeah it will if you compensate. <\edit>
Perhaps there are others.

I have 3-D CAD so I will just model the spokes and order them.

 

[RustyGold]

This is an advantage on a spoke where you want the shank to be as light as possible. To get appropriate cut threads you need a fatter spoke.

A larger diameter at the threaded end, at least.

I've looked back, and have found spoke guage tables from as early as the (20th century) teens. They match the standard or Birmingham chart previously posted. I don't think it's a coincidence that a 14ga spoke diameter produces a #2-56 thread when roll formed. I would guess that spokes have been roll formed since near the beginning (patent 1860s, practical application in industry by 1880s).

Has anyone seen a production cut thread spoke? I wouldn't be surprised if the answer was no.

Because stainless steel is usually softer, but it work hardens quickly, I thought the standards for stainless spokes might be different.

Like I mentioned before, it would only take a higher pressure to form complete threads. With a thread height of ~.009" per side...I doubt any changes would have be made. 11ga is 11ga.

 

[Kevin B]

Threeforks, I'm glad you posted this about spokes and etc. Learning the cost of these parts and services was eye opening. I used to purchase entire Weinmann 26" wheels new for $45 to $60. Their much more than that now but still cheaper than building evidently. Knowing the value of these parts now I stripped down a badly bent wheel today keeping the spokes and hubs. Down the road I may try to learn how to lace and true wheels. I was able to tear the wheel down wearing my arm sling from my surgery. To learn reassembly I'll have be healed up better.

 

[threeforks]

Hi,
I am also glad to learn more about spokes and such.
The only new spokes I ever bought was back in 1985 when I first built the blue goose
and the chrome redline now "connected" in the RedGoose tandem build.
Bought new wheels, then stainless spokes and rebuilt all 4 wheels using the stainless.

Ever since I have saved spokes from used wheels to remake wheels.
20" wheels with stainless spokes to recycle are not easy to find around here.
There were a lot more tossed out bikes nearer the bigger city where i moved from.

Building wheels is not that hard. It helps to have the right length spokes.
Example 1 : Take apart a 26" 3 cross wheel, and build up another 26" 3 cross wheel
with those spokes.
Example 2 : Buy new spokes that are the correct size for your new wheel. Use a chart
or get help choosing the correct size.

I do understand that my method might not be the fastest, or the one in the "Park Tools"
video, but it works for me, and I find it fun, most of the time.

Find a "same kind" of wheel to be built, and copy.
Finding the valve stem hole for a guide, copy the 4 spokes around the hole.
There should be two "out innies" and two "in outies".
The wheel that is built to be copied will explain how they go.

So that's one each from the 4 different ways the spokes go.
In and out, left and right.

Then fill in the rest, starting with the spokes that go from the outside of the hub, both sides,
then the ones that fit from the inside to the out,

Then there is the first truing, tension, and final truing.

Find some tossed out wheels and test build.
I see it as a fun challenge.

 

[Indyjps]

https://www.bmxguru.com/collections...color-stainless-steel-spoke-single-80mm-320mm
bmxguru.com

$0.35 each stainless steel spokes from 80-320mm.
$0.40 black, $0.60 other colors

They also build wheels.

 

[threeforks]

Thank you Indy for the link.

3Fs

 

[Ulu]

. . . in the USA one rarely sees Imperial or Birmingham gauge. . .

With my (probably Chinese) spokes, I’m not seeing them now, nor SWG.

When I measure my spokes I find they were 0.078”, just under 2 mm, & just shy of 14 gauge. The threads were exactly 2 mm as far as I can tell.

 

[Ulu]

BTW, I did get the fat bike hub and I’m in the process of putting it on my hoop.


I do not have the right spokes yet.

 

[Ulu]

I ordered a set of spokes and nipples off of eBay. Theoretically they ship from the United States will be here in six days max.

Then we will know how good my math was.

 

[threeforks]

Just a quick note about the spokes i ended up using.

First off thank you for the info about spokes in this thread.

i will not try to "cut" any threads to use spokes that are to long.

A neighbor was ordering some things from Pork Chop and ordered two bags of spokes
for me at the same time. Best price around.
I ordered nipples from Modern Bike. Plated brass.

Stainless spokes, 182 mm long, for 20" rims, and the high flange Suzue hubs I bought
back in 1985. 3 cross.

Very nice, with new spokes and nipples, the wheels were almost true after just lacing them.

That's one of the wheels, spinning in the sun, on my avatar.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

Just a quick note about the spokes i ended up using.

First off thank you for the info about spokes in this thread.

i will not try to "cut" any threads to use spokes that are to long.

A neighbor was ordering some things from Pork Chop and ordered two bags of spokes
for me at the same time. Best price around.
I ordered nipples from Modern Bike. Plated brass.

Stainless spokes, 182 mm long, for 20" rims, and the high flange Suzue hubs I bought
back in 1985. 3 cross.

Very nice, with new spokes and nipples, the wheels were almost true after just lacing them.

That's one of the wheels, spinning in the sun, on my avatar.

Porkchop also has the Chrome brass nipples in 100 packs for about $20 shipped on eBay

 

[Ulu]

I ended up getting (ordering) a 36 pack of stainless spokes with chromed white brass nipples.

They are gonna look so sweet (if they fit.)

Anyhow I ended up paying almost exactly $1 each for a spoke with nipple, and that included the tax and shipping.

~$38 delivered USPS flatrate.

If it turns out they don’t work I’m going to probably modify the spokes of the original set.

 

[Irontri]

Just a quick note about the spokes i ended up using.

First off thank you for the info about spokes in this thread.

i will not try to "cut" any threads to use spokes that are to long.

A neighbor was ordering some things from Pork Chop and ordered two bags of spokes
for me at the same time. Best price around.
I ordered nipples from Modern Bike. Plated brass.

Stainless spokes, 182 mm long, for 20" rims, and the high flange Suzue hubs I bought
back in 1985. 3 cross.

Very nice, with new spokes and nipples, the wheels were almost true after just lacing them.

That's one of the wheels, spinning in the sun, on my avatar.

Old thread, but figured I’d let you guys know: I can cut and thread 12g and 14g spokes