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Remember the Hindenberg?
Wasn't that the one painted with flammable paint?

Hydrogen burns with a pale blue flame that is nearly invisible in daylight
I do not think that driving around on the public streets with thousands of cars carrying tanks of compressed hydrogen is very safe, compared to use in an industrial environment.
Good thing we're not driving around with tanks full of flammable liquids already or anything. You seem to be obsessively focused on the dangers of the new technology, while being willfully blind to the current situation.
Wasn't that the one painted with flammable paint? attachment 252516

Hydrogen burns with a pale blue flame that is nearly invisible in daylight
H2 is the lightest thing in the Hindenburg, and it burned almost instantly. FOOF!

It’s everything else that is slow-burning with all the smoke. It was a flying hotel!

Airships were a bad idea anyway. Those which do exist run on helium. Not safe in any kind of weather except the most calm. The US Navy refused to put hydrogen in their airships. It didn’t matter. They all crashed because of bad weather and poor engineering.

They foolishly tried to mix hydrogen technology with helium technology, resulting in valves that were too small to control the necessary volume of gases. It takes Way more helium to float a balloon.

Which is all Completely aside from the question of H2 cars and trucks. There are many questions of engineering that need to be solved.

But somehow we want to cut off the branch of the tree that we’re all sitting on, because we’re afraid that we will catch the tree on fire? In future history, no one will ever call this the age of reason. (We are in a constant state of social panic, driven by the things we don’t talk about here.)

So….Assume whatever you want about my character, Matti. Your Beliefs are your own business. As an engineer that’s how I look at these things. Don’t jump the gun.

Right now, if your car runs on compressed gas, you have to have hazmat compliance and hazmat signage and hazmat fueling routines. As far as I know, such only exist for propane here.

I do not see any indication that they will addopt H2 either. Instead what I think I see is the government of California planning to import millions of cheap Chinese electric vehicles to the west coast. I do not know how they’re going to make that work, and get along with the American unions.

Based on our recent publicized diplomacy, I suspect much international skullduggery.

There is Enormous resistance here to buying electric cars now, due to price etc.

They must be trying to figure out how to cut the price down.
I noticed something when riding around our neighborhood on the bicycle. People who used to charge their electric cars in the garage are now charging them outdoors.

I wonder if something changed on their homeowners insurance? I’ve been hearing a lot of grumbling about the insurance industry here, canceling policies and changing provisions.
You seem to be obsessively focused on the dangers of the new technology, while being willfully blind to the current situation.
I could give you a long list of technologies that eventually turned out to be very bad deals for people. We’re spending a fortune on a progress so minuscule that it’s debatable whether it exists at all.

But what I want you to focus on is the fact that I’m the guy took my 30 kph gasoline boat and converted to a 6 kph electric boat.

I’ve seen the pollution all my life. I couldn’t stand to stick a gasoline engine in the lake anymore. They screw up the water and they scare the fish away.

It would be a fast boat if it had light lithium batteries, but then it would be dangerous to put it in the water.

The absolute worst thing that can happen to you on a boat is that it catches on fire. I carry a fire extinguisher as the law requires but of course that will only put out gasoline or modest electrical fires and won’t touch lithium.

Even if it has a big hole in the bottom, my boat will still float because it’s full of Styrofoam. But that Styrofoam burns like a torch and so does fiberglass covered in polyester and epoxy.

But it wouldn’t matter. Lithium batteries could burn through an aluminum boat or a steel boat. They burn right through the floor of a concrete parking structure.

Pour gasoline on concrete & light it. Nothing will happen. The gasoline will burn off and nothing will happen.

Put lithium on concrete and light it.

The concrete will immediately start to explode shooting bits of flaming lithium everywhere.

It is a great testament to the ability of modern marketing that so many people believe that this is safe.
Theres no doubt the eleccy cars are a standout achievement in themselve's, in reality its a technology over 50 yrs old, who remembers the E-type jag (owned by jag I think??) back in 1971, powered by GM electric motors to the rear and car batteries taking up the entire underbonnet section... this thing pulled an 11 sec quarter, at the time it was unheard of for passenger cars to be that quick, From memory the whole project was bought by BP and shelved!!! true story!

We can even go back further to Nikolai tesla driving around new york city in a model T that ran on electricity, he drove that to JP mogan himself and was told it was no good coz it didnt have a meter on it to make money!.... thats also a true story and that was 1900 or somthing...
So what im saying is its not the actual electric car thats the problem its the means to power them thats causing drama.

Theres a big advancement in the form of "Room temperature superconductors" while we have super conduction at the moment its always in unison with super freezing temps, mostly used in conjunction with liquid nitrogen to achieve the desired temp. but some defense companies have applied for patents to develop a "Room temper Super Conductor" some dating back to yr 2000 (leaked navy ufo Patent, if you believe it)

Not if ...but when we crack this we can make everything electrical with this stuff allowing the free flowing use of every single amp, volt,ohm or whatever other form of electrical energy you can think of, we can send it freely with no resistance. no heat build up, Power can be sent long distances with very small cableing, no more Giant electrical towers or power lines ,they will be able to send huge amounts of power through very small circuits.
they can make batteries out of this stuff too and they rekon you can pack mega volts into a very small space, Elon Musk was waffling on about a battery quite a few years ago, a battery that will power your entire home for 3 months, this battery is the size of your fist! its not here yet but I suspect that he's on about the super conduction battery! only then will the cars be truely safe.

There was a lot of talk between musk and toyota as elon was very interested in the "Fuel Cell Tech" but I havnt follow3ed that one for a while now! but it is a must watch space,

I also saw on you tube a US company has developed a use for all those old windmill turbines that are getting buried all over the planet, poor greta thornburg will have a heart attack when she finds out they're gonna be burned and used to power cement factories that claim to have a much cleaner burning process than coal....Hmmmmmm. LOL,,,, where exactly does all this end ha ha ha !!
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Good thing we're not driving around with tanks full of flammable liquids already or anything.
Modern fuel systems are pretty safe.
Most of those explosions you see on TV are totally fake.

You can toss a lit cigarette in a pool of gasoline, and it will simply go out. Not enough open combustion. If a car is leaking fuel, people smell it and get it fixed.

If you knock the hose/elbow/valve off the top of a compressed gas bottle, they tend to shoot off like a rocket. The bottles are heavy and they can do a lot of damage when they hit things. The gas itself doesn’t have to explode. They pump argon up to 2500+ psi in order to get enough gas inside the tank. It won’t even burn, but it is dangerous AF.

A big criticism of hydrogen is you have to pump the tank up to 5 or 10,000 psi (!) in order to get enough gas in it, or else half the car will just be heavy tank.
A simple goggle search of "EV bicycle fire in the news" reveals how even
the smaller lithium batteries are dangerous too. Folks are getting hurt and
killed by the fires they start, usually inside the house or garage at night.
It's not looking very good for the electric brigade, be it car, truck or pushy, they having the same drama... fires from the battery,
I honestly think the powers that be may just intervene at some point, here in Australia the first ones to jump one this is our insurance companies, rising premiums if you own electric anything, policies have to be rewritten to include cover for electric bikes stored inside.
It's gone just plain crazy.. they even have deemed many properties uninsurable for flood's, covering all their bases
This thread is interesting. Our earth has been coming out of an ice age for what, the last 10,000 years?

@Cycledelic68 I learned a new word.. "Climategate"

Thanks I like it!

Going to get me one of those worn out wind mills and an electric truck. Fill it with all the old 12V lead acid batteries from the cars no one will have gasoline to put in them.:thumbsup:
An electric vehicle needs lots of battery for freeway trips. Most of my trips in the truck are under 10 miles, in town, 30~45 mph. Usually very fair weather.

For that little use I could deal with a lot less luxury. No heater. Rag top. Light weight.

Blast me! This is like chasing after a girlfriend when you’ve already got 5!
This thread is interesting. Our earth has been coming out of an ice age for what, the last 10,000 years?

@Cycledelic68 I learned a new word.. "Climategate"

Thanks I like it!

Going to get me one of those worn out wind mills and an electric truck. Fill it with all the old 12V lead acid batteries from the cars no one will have gasoline to put in them.:thumbsup:
Ooh, thanks I'm going to read a bit about that too.

I have read a lot about the free energy movement. For clarification, I have no trouble reading something and not instantly claiming a truth or dismissing it with a 'conspiracy theory'. I just enjoy it, am open to it and dig for more information.

It is astounding to me how much influence the 'free energy' thinkers had on our culture, stories and music.
Just to name a little tip of the iceberg:

"My sweet sixteen"
The term is most known from "Billy Idol" and his song, but originally it came from "Edward Leedskalnin" the anti-gravity and electromagnetic inventor.

A song made by Kate Bush (this one is pretty obvious when you see the video). Inspired by Wilhem Reich and his "Orgone" technology. At present day, inspired by Wilhem Reich his stories, I see his work returning in the HAARP program, or weather modification. Not here to confirm it, just to enjoy the story.

There was a music and arts show here in the Netherlands regarding "Johannes Wardenier" (he is from Fryslan @MattiThundrrr ;) ) and he was a engine designer.

The most intriguing (yet dark) bit is the free energy thinkers disappearing after the 50's / 60's, with lots of hints to 'operation market garden' and the start of the CIA.

I read the most books about Viktor Schauberger.
I deeply enjoy the myth's, stories and stuff that happened afterwards in the world, mainly USA. In short, according to the book, he was forced to work on Nazi UFO's and flying submarines. After the war, his inventions were captured by (I believe) the CIA and not long after the Roswell UFO sightings were reported.

Man I can talk hours about this subject (and bicycles) :grin:

Anyway, there is a great Dutch website regarding these inventors, would be great if you guys (if interested ofcourse!) could translate and read it:
All these theories about what really caused this or that change are like plato’s shadows: We just can’t see everything.

They all discount or ignore the most powerful and invisible force of all: chaos. The unknowable effects of living in a chaotic system.

Chaos, of course, breeds panic.

We live in a chaotic mess of ongoing planetary and solar changes, microscopically few of which we influence directly. None of which give a comprehensive metric on the influence of our efforts.

We have gambled much on ideas that turned out to be troublesome net losers. They might have looked fantastic, until the reality of chaotic complications evolved.

I worked in design development for decades. You learn to expect unexpected complications. The electric car is one of those “simple ideas” that turned out to require immense development of designs.

The application of computers is the only thing that makes electric cars work well enough to supplant ICE. The same computers keep ICE cars efficient too.

Computers are one of the few ways we can manage chaotic systems.

Well I guess we have different feeds.

I saw this this morning - EV battery fires from 2010-2020, indicate a 0.0012% of a passenger electric vehicle battery catching fire.
...there is a 0.1% chance of an ICE vehicle catching fire.
ICE fires don't make the news - they are too common.
I don't know much about any of this but what I do know everyone one of these energy types produce large amounts of hazardous waste I know I destroy it for a liveing. Electricity uses lead, PCB, mercrery, and all kinds of other stuff, oil I've had to rip out many refineries and pipe lines, natural gas mercaptan, the list goes on and on the only way to lower green house emissions is to stay home lessen your travel by more local products, and walk or bike to the market. All the alternative energy stuff is a way to make people feel less guilty about being lazy and as humans we all are
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