Need recommendations on these two rims

[mornview]

I'm looking to build up some wheels for my wife's new BCA balloon tire mixte:

The bike will primarily be a winter bike, with studded 26 x 2.1 tires on it for city commuting. However, we'd also like to use this bike for touring during the nicer months, with some 26 x 1.5's. The roughest terrain this bike will see is probably crushed limestone trails; if I ever plan on taking it klunking I'll build up an appropriate wheelset.

So far all of my experience in wheel-building has been with a variety of Sun-Ringle's great alloy rims. However, I really want this build to "pop", so I think I need to venture out into some more interesting rims (if painting the rims were an option, I'd just buy some Sun Ringle rims and paint them, but it's not really an option right now). However, I want to be sure that these rims will be able to stand up to years and years of usage. So ... anybody have experience with either of these rims?

3G Copper 26 x 2.24" rims:

Dear lord these are some beautiful rims, and I'm sure they'd look amazing against the brown frame. My only two reservations: I have no idea how good these rims are from a functional standpoint (I know they're amazing from an aesthetic standpoint), and when it comes time for touring, would it even be feasible to try running 26 x 1.5 tires on here?

Weinmann AS7X 26 x 1.75 white rims:

Once the stickers are removed, I think these would look pretty classy. Plus these have the advantage of being better able to run a range of tires widths (1.5 - 2.1). Basically the only thing up in the air is whether or not it's a quality rim. Really, though, I just want someome to tell me to go with the copper rim instead .

Thanks for any input .

 

[Bicycle808]

First off, the mixte with 26" wheels is HOTTT!

Secondly, I haven't messed with the 3g jawns, but i've been considering building a wheelset around them. OTOH, i've run plenty of Weinmann AS7x rims; I think they're really good for being single-wall and cheap... i've been klunking a few sets, and they've needed very little attention so far. Then again, i'm running coaster-only, so a l'il wobble doesn't matter as much as it would if i were running rim brakes...

Which leads me to another consideration: what are your plans for the bakes? If you run the stock calipers (or similar), it is possible that they won't accommodate 57mm rims--best check to be sure. (I'm also not entirely sure that the 3g rims have a bonafide braking surface...). If you run the white AS7x rims, the powdercoat will impede braking until it rubs off....

 

[Bicycle808]

ps-With the 57mm hoops, 1.5" tires will likely roll of the rim.

 

[DJ Bill]

Unless there is something wrong with the rims on it presently...Why not keep them ? If you want to change up the color, look into using vinyl from a sign shop to cover them....If you leave the sides bare for the brakes it should work out well. You will have to unlace and relace. I've got a single speed lightweight I covered entirely in red Avery vinyl a few year back and it still looks good.


That's a great looking Mixte..

 

[mornview]

Unless there is something wrong with the rims on it presently...Why not keep them ? If you want to change up the color, look into using vinyl from a sign shop to cover them....If you leave the sides bare for the brakes it should work out well. You will have to unlace and relace. I've got a single speed lightweight I covered entirely in red Avery vinyl a few year back and it still looks good.


That's a great looking Mixte..

That's a fair point, and believe me, we're all about repurposing/salvaging things. Thing is, the wife and I each have a winter bike and a bike for the rest of the seasons (our winter bikes double as our touring bikes). We plan, through a ton of maintenance, to still be riding this same stable of four bikes decades from now. And we do 99.99999% of our commuting (year-round) by bike. So if we're going to be stuck with these same bikes for decades, they might as well be exactly what we want. Moreover, with all the money we save commuting by bike, spending a week's worth of gas money on a set of rims really ain't a big deal.

Thanks for the vinyl idea, though; I never thought of that. I might have to use that on another project.

 

[mornview]

First off, the mixte with 26" wheels is HOTTT!

Secondly, I haven't messed with the 3g jawns, but i've been considering building a wheelset around them. OTOH, i've run plenty of Weinmann AS7x rims; I think they're really good for being single-wall and cheap... i've been klunking a few sets, and they've needed very little attention so far. Then again, i'm running coaster-only, so a l'il wobble doesn't matter as much as it would if i were running rim brakes...

Which leads me to another consideration: what are your plans for the bakes? If you run the stock calipers (or similar), it is possible that they won't accommodate 57mm rims--best check to be sure. (I'm also not entirely sure that the 3g rims have a bonafide braking surface...). If you run the white AS7x rims, the powdercoat will impede braking until it rubs off....

Ah yes, I did forget to mention the braking situation - I plan on running a coaster brake in the back and a Sturmey Archer dynamo drum brake hub up front (ps - I know we've talked about those S.A. hubs before - do you know off-hand what the dropout spacing is on them? I see them in 70mm and 90mm varieties, but I don't know if that's the hub shell diameter or the dropout spacing that is being referred to).

So no rim braking whatsoever. That's reassuring to hear that the Weinmanns are good rims, though. I think I'll plan on going with those ... the wife is so set on the bronze 3g rims that I might get to buy both anyways .

 

[Bicycle808]

All of the modern Sturmey front drum hubs-- x-fd, xl-fd, x-fdd, xl-fdd, sbf-- are spaced at 100mm, which is the modern standard for front hubs, excepting the various thru-axle set-ups, and fat bikes. The 70 versus the 90mm refers to the diameter of the drum itself-- the x-fdd has a 70mm drum and an 89.9mm flange diameter, whereas the xl-fdd has a massive 90mm diameter drum, with an incredibly huge 109mm flange!! I got a couple of 70mm models kickin around, and they all work nice-- but I really do want to mess around with a 90mm one of these days.

The Weinmann AS7x rims are good rims for the price. But, they're very cheap rims. Rhyno Lites cost about the same, look uglier, but they're double walled and eyeletted... i would trust them more for semi-loaded touring, for sure. I'm using the AS7x for some banger klunker projects (trying to decide which modern industrial bike is the best klunkin' platform) but if I was trying to build a bike for my wife to commute on and bikepack on and possibly tour on for a few decades, I'd choose something different. Seriously, for what i paid and what i'm putting them thru, i'm very impressed-- but they do have some limiting factors in terms of design. (Running drum/coaster opens you up to the incredibly hott world of disc-only rims... just remember you gotta run 36h, which limits your options somewhat.)

 

[mornview]

All of the modern Sturmey front drum hubs-- x-fd, xl-fd, x-fdd, xl-fdd, sbf-- are spaced at 100mm, which is the modern standard for front hubs, excepting the various thru-axle set-ups, and fat bikes. The 70 versus the 90mm refers to the diameter of the drum itself-- the x-fdd has a 70mm drum and an 89.9mm flange diameter, whereas the xl-fdd has a massive 90mm diameter drum, with an incredibly huge 109mm flange!! I got a couple of 70mm models kickin around, and they all work nice-- but I really do want to mess around with a 90mm one of these days.

The Weinmann AS7x rims are good rims for the price. But, they're very cheap rims. Rhyno Lites cost about the same, look uglier, but they're double walled and eyeletted... i would trust them more for semi-loaded touring, for sure. I'm using the AS7x for some banger klunker projects (trying to decide which modern industrial bike is the best klunkin' platform) but if I was trying to build a bike for my wife to commute on and bikepack on and possibly tour on for a few decades, I'd choose something different. Seriously, for what i paid and what i'm putting them thru, i'm very impressed-- but they do have some limiting factors in terms of design. (Running drum/coaster opens you up to the incredibly hott world of disc-only rims... just remember you gotta run 36h, which limits your options somewhat.)

When you put it that way the Rhyno Lites make a lot more sense. I was kind of forgetting just how much stress a fully-loaded touring bike puts on the rims. Since I'll probably be building two wheelsets for this bike (2 or 3 speed coaster brake and SA XFDD in front for touring, but I'm not putting either of those hubs through a Wisconsin winter), I'll probably throw the 3G rims on for the winter.

By the way, what lights are you running with your XFDD's? I've been running some 500 lumen lights lately, so I might be a bit spoiled - my biggest fear switching to a dynamo hub is whether or not I'll be able to find any lights that are powerful enough for me. I commute at night a lot and this city has next to no lighting.

 

[Bicycle808]

I'm a big fan of Busch&Muller lights; my go-to light is the B&M IQ CYO, which are pricey but bright and reliable and i've got one that's been in-service for 6 years or so. It's a high-output LED with some killer reflectors/optics, and ppl are always shocked by the brightness. Once, a motorist actually cussed me out for how bright it was, and demanded that i "turn that s___ down, NOW!" TBH, i'm pretty sure that was more about his attitude and less about how bright the light is.... dude drove away in a hurry as i approached his vehicle.

My dream light is the B&M Luxos IQ2 "U"... the second-brightest hub-powerd headlight ever, with multiple modes, a switch for the tail light (all the B&M headlights can be wired up to a LED taillight without effecting the headlight output), plus a USB jack so you can charge your phone and other small devices while you ride. Super-expensive light, though.

MY buddy got the B&M Eyc (pronounced "Ike") and it's a lot cheaper, but it's really impressive. Some info, prices, and pictures of the beam itself, go here: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m-hl.asp

Even with shipping, much better deals exist if you buy from a German supplier:
http://www.starbike.com/en/accessories/lighting/dynamo-lighting/
If you actually rder it, they drop the VAT which brings the price down a lot. I did an order with a few friends, and shipping was cheap and pretty fast, considering....

None of these are cheap, but you never again have to worry about buying batteries, charging batteries, or forgetting to bring you light. I guess they do die, eventually, but the only one i ever killed was a tail-light; i'm pretty sure commuting on the salty NJ roads for 3 winters fried it. The new one is still going strong.

I somehow suspect that your plan, at this point, is to build her a "fun" wheelset for everyday use/commuting/JRA duty, and then a "practical" wheelset for bikepacking/tours, etc... Makes perfect sense to me. And even with the drum hub, the X-FDD and XL-FDD are pretty cheap. The light's wires attach to the hub with a quickly/easily removed connector, so you could leave the light on the bike as you swapped out the wheels/tires.

 

[mornview]

Yep, my [very limited] research led me to believe the B&M lights were my best bet. Thanks for the link to save a few bucks, though; I didn't know about the German supplier. I'm pretty psyched about this set-up, and I'm even debating running the XFDD through the winter. Thing is, if I do that, I'll definetely need to open the thing up and overhaul it after winter is done. Have you overhauled one of these yet? Front drum brake hubs look pretty simple to overhaul (I have a Worksman one from Chuck that I've been meaning to tinker with), but the addition of all that generator stuff has me a little worried about messing something up.

And yeah, you got my plan down perfectly . I recently acquired a pair of Bendix kickbacks, which is what I think I'll use on our touring wheelsets (I'm not a fan of cables and, besides, from our first 120 mile ride the only thing I found myself wanting was a lower gear for hills). I can't bring myself to put those hubs through a Wisconsin winter, though, knowing what will happen to them and the limited availability of replacement parts.

 

[Bicycle808]

All I've ever done to any x-fdd hubs is cracked open the drum side to clean it out after it started squeaking. Just had to wipe the inside of the hub out, and left the shoes alone. The shoes are theoretically available to buy replacements for, but it seems like they're always out of stock. http://biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?i...mey-Archer&sc=Hub-Parts&tc=&item_id=SU-HSB356 (Same supplier has 90mm version in-stock though.) Still, it seems like the SA drum pads can go tens of thousands of miles before needing to be replaced; i just dial the cable's barrel adjuster out a quarter turn a few times a year. The bearings are sealed cartridge bearing type, and i've not had to replace them on any of my bikes (or my wife's); it's a standard size, and all you'd have to do is knock the axle out and swap the old cartridge for the new. As far as the generator itself, it's my understanding that you don't want to mess with the copper coils at all. I've yet to have one fail, but if/when i do, i'll probably just buy a new unit and swap the guts out. The Sturmey Archer guts seem to be markedly different than the Grimeca-style ones that Worksman uses. The brake actuation is similar, but the maintenance needs are different.

And i know you live out in the real snowy neck of the woods, but the winters here in NJ have plenty of snow and the towns round here use tons of (too much?) salt. My main commuter bike is my go-to for snow rides, and it runs a x-fdd. No problems so far, knock on wood. I've had to wipe some corrosion off the connector-clip where the wires interface with the hub, but haven't replaced it yet. If ever i had to, those are cheap and easily sourced online.

HTH

PS- i think Bendix kickbacks are awesome, but i'd run banger cb-e110 or KTs out in the Wisconsin snow, too. Keep those 40+-year old 2 speeds shiny. =D

 

[mornview]

So as I understand it the only maintenance you do in the drum compartment (I'm assuming the bearings are in a seperate compartment, like the Worksman hub) is just wipe the inside of the shell clean? Just seems too ... simple .

Have you overhauled any of the modern Sturmey Archer kickbacks? I'm somewhat considering having a two-speed hub on the bike for the winter, but obviously wouldn't want to put the Bendixes through that. However, I would definetely need to be able to overhaul it. I've overhauled both the red and yellow band Bendix kickbacks at this point; I can't imagine the SA design is all that different. All the same, you're right, a KT hub comes in at around $15 and I'll get at least a few winters out of it. Far more economical .

 

[Bicycle808]

Yes, the bearings are separate from the brake, and they are fully sealed cartridge bearings, and not adjustable or anything like that. The hub requires very little maintenance at all. I know it's gonna need some new parts some day, but assuming you have it set-up properly, it won't need much love from the rider at all.

I have a s2 (no-brake version) hub but i haven't even laced it yet, let alone overhauled it. There's lots of pictorial step-by-step guides to the overhaul online, b./c the first batch of Sturmey kickbacks left the factory missing a spring (!) and sturmey would send you the spring for free, but you were gonna have to install it yourself or pay a shop to do it. Needless to say, a lot folks were looking for tutorials and a few folks came thru. The design is similar to the Bendix Blue band. But if I was gonna build a wheelset for the slop, i'd be inclined to run a current-production singlespeed coaster hub, b/c parts are so cheap and available, and the overhaul is so quick'n'easy. For $15 bones ($19 for a Shimano), you can get a whole new hb and just slide out the old guts and install the new. No need to re-lace the shell until the inner surface wears out (causing problems with both braking and engagement)...

For a winter commuter, i prefer components that are strong, cheap, and simple.

 

[mornview]

Yes, the bearings are separate from the brake, and they are fully sealed cartridge bearings, and not adjustable or anything like that. The hub requires very little maintenance at all. I know it's gonna need some new parts some day, but assuming you have it set-up properly, it won't need much love from the rider at all.

I have a s2 (no-brake version) hub but i haven't even laced it yet, let alone overhauled it. There's lots of pictorial step-by-step guides to the overhaul online, b./c the first batch of Sturmey kickbacks left the factory missing a spring (!) and sturmey would send you the spring for free, but you were gonna have to install it yourself or pay a shop to do it. Needless to say, a lot folks were looking for tutorials and a few folks came thru. The design is similar to the Bendix Blue band. But if I was gonna build a wheelset for the slop, i'd be inclined to run a current-production singlespeed coaster hub, b/c parts are so cheap and available, and the overhaul is so quick'n'easy. For $15 bones ($19 for a Shimano), you can get a whole new hb and just slide out the old guts and install the new. No need to re-lace the shell until the inner surface wears out (causing problems with both braking and engagement)...

For a winter commuter, i prefer components that are strong, cheap, and simple.

Perfect, I think I've got a plan now. Cheap, functional components in the winter (except those 3G rims ... just can't pass those up ), and quality components for touring. Sometimes I just need someone to remind me to be rational . There's just way too many cool options out there; sometimes it doesn't make all that much practical sense to put it on my build, though.

 

[Bicycle808]

Glad to hear it. Now, let me ruin all that for you, and let ya know that Sun makes MTX-33 rims in white and a 36h drilling. Ha!

 

[mornview]

Glad to hear it. Now, let me ruin all that for you, and let ya know that Sun makes MTX-33 rims in white and a 36h drilling. Ha!

Haha, yeah, I came across that in my research, but all my usual spots (Amazon, Niagara Cycle Works) are out of stock in the 26", 36h white version. I might see if my LBS can order it, though.

 

[Bicycle808]

QBP doesn't have them in white, but maybe they use another distributor who carries them?
Or: http://www.bikewagon.com/sun-ringle-rim-alloy-26x1-50-mtx-33-white-36h#74273
I've gotten rims from them before; fast shipping, no problems.

 

[mornview]

QBP doesn't have them in white, but maybe they use another distributor who carries them?
Or: http://www.bikewagon.com/sun-ringle-rim-alloy-26x1-50-mtx-33-white-36h#74273
I've gotten rims from them before; fast shipping, no problems.

Thanks, I've considered ordering stuff from them before. Do you know if this rim has eyelets? I can't quite tell from the pictures or description.

 

[Bicycle808]

Yep. That's my go-to rim. Practically true before you even lace them, eyelets, double-wall, most of them are welded, although i've heard there are oem-spec versions with a pinned&sleeved joint. These tend to build up easy as pie, and my 250lb self (down to 240 now) has yet to bend one...

http://sun-ringle.com/mtb/rims/mtx-33/

I got plenty of black ones, a set of "chrome" finish high-polish ones, 3 urban camo ones for my trike project...(not laced yet) and i have nothing but good stuff to say about them. They're overbuilt, designed for freeride/downhill use, but not terribly heavy for being >33mm wide, fairly deep-section, and bombproof. Only drawback is, they definitely don't have a "Vintage" look to'm, if that's your thing... doesn't bother me one bit, though.

 

[mornview]

Nah, vintage doesn't matter for this build. I figure I've got an (almost) one-of-a-kind frameset to work with here, with this balloon tire mixte, so I might as well make it as unique and distinct as I want.

I wish Sun would do more of their rims with that "chrome" finish. It seems like most of their lines of rims once had that as an option, but they are getting harder to find. I've got my CR-18's (ISO 590) with that finish and love them. Still my favorite rim I've worked with.

Which do you feel is stronger - a welded or pinned rim? I feel like I've heard arguments for both.