Philosiphy of Rat question

[skoda]

Not trying to start any arguments, but, from my understanding of the heritage of the name Rat Rod, does the anti - all show and no go standard apply to bikes in the same way it applies to cars?

For instance, if it's cheaper to build a bike with a newer frame, if that's all you can find, wouldn't you do that instread of taking extra time, adding extra weight, spending extra money to make it look a certain way? On the other hand, Rat Rod cars certainly have restrictions based on year, styling, etc on what is a Rat and what is just a piece o crap.

I got to thinking about the subject while reading a post on the Ol Skool Rodz forum, where they kicked some guy off the HAMB board for being a ....... and building a gasser out of a Camaro. More for being a ....... it sounds like.

Anyway, I think I have my answer already based on the creativity and ingenuity used by the folks here, chopping up girls mountain bike frames and using what's available. I haven't read any complaints.

It made me wonder though, where the lines are drawn? If your bike isn't flat black, is it still a "Rat" or is that something else. Or is this forum and genre of biking big enough for stuff beyond cantilever frames and red rims? Maybe the bike riding makes us less pent-up? This is all just for conversations sake. Please excuse me if I said anything ignorant or offended anyone!

 

[yeshoney]

Traditional v. Rat

OK, you may open up a can of worms but here is my take. The term rat rod to me means that all the money spent goes into the motor and tires, end of story. The body and accompanying parts are from ???? A traditional rod is usually painted as "period correct" Early = Flat black or primer, 50's = Satin colors, gloss colors or two tones, 60's were Gassers style or layered and Highly metallic. Crossing boundries or calling them different is matter of being clear. Certainly a Rat rod/Traditional rod can have elements of both. For bikes I think the like is blurry to say the least.

My 2 cents and I expect 1 cent change!

Joe

 

[Hooch]

I think thats the beauty of our forum we ca define what it means as we go .. I mean the bikes are all hot rod inspired

 

[skoda]

I guess I am wondering if there is another "school" of bikes that is being included here and it just doesn't have a name yet? It's not really important, just interesting.

I.E. chopping up a Taiwanese mountain bike would be the automotive equivalent to making something Rat looking out of a Hyndai, which would get you chewed up and spit out in car circles, yet it's perfectly fine here.

Maybe it has to do with that the engine of a bike is the rider.

I was wondering what other people's take was on if a real Rat bike had to be on an American frame, of a certain "vintage" or does everything outside of this technically qualify as a custom bike? Really, once you have chopped the crud out of a frame and welded it back together, it's like you basically made it from raw materials, or scrap at least.

Not that I want to start trouble - again I'm probably answering my own questions. Just curious. I know this is why the "other bikes" section exists. I guess I'm wondering what terminology applies where? It would be cool if something new started here.

 

[Rat Rod]

This is a good conversation. :mrgreen:

If you're a purist then you won't use the term "Rat Rod" and would only use the term "Hot Rod". :roll: We all got our lecture on that back when the forum first went up and a certain individual had to let us all know that the term "Rat Rod" was somewhat of a poser description. The thing that cracks me up a little about this whole elitist attitude is that it's all just copying of what was done back in the 50s and 60s anyway. Chances are, 90% of the folks in the Kustom Kulture world today were not building hot rods back in the 50s or 60s....heck, most of them weren't alive yet...ha ha!

You will also notice that many bike companies today that build a Rat Rod bike usually do it in the traditional style....flat black, red wheels, white walls, etc. I think this is what most people think of when you say Rat Rod. You also might think of the real rusted looking coupe sittin' in the weeds with a flat head. Even some of the latest trends in Rat Rodding didn't happen back in the 50s and 60s. My Dad made me laugh when he said that they hated white walls back in the 50s and they used black paint to try to get rid of them.

As far as how this converts into bikes, well, that's all up for debate. I think most of the folks building bikes here are trying to capture that 50s and 60s style in their creations and they are trying to do it on a budget. Whether or not they use American made bikes just depends on the builder. I think we can all overlook the country of origin as long as it looks cool. These guys over in Europe are really building some sweet rat rods and they have a real hard time getting a hold of American made bikes.

So, not really sure that we can nail down an answer, but it sure is fun to discuss it! And Skoda, I think you will find that most of the folks here are pretty open and fairly humble folks so conversations like this are never a bad thing. :wink:

 

[CCR]

gee all this talk has peeled back my eyelids, i thought "Rat Rod" just meant as cool as possible for as cheap as possible. just my personal generic definition. I think the build off has shown a good deal of "Rat Rods" with that bein said.

 

[Multipass]

A can of worms indeed. One could write an encyclopedia trying to analyze, define and categorize the various types of custom car cultures and sub-cultures. Even the term “Rat Rod” is controversial.

Generally speaking, the bikes here tend to be vintage or vintage style cruisers customized with traditional hot-rod styling influences.

BUT, having said that, there is quite a diverse selection of custom rides here. We’ve got choppers, muscle bikes, lowriders, stretch limos and even at least one fixie! The common bond is a Do-It-Yourself attitude with a willingness to share ideas and knowledge. I truly hope that we, as an online community, don’t become afflicted with “True Believer Syndrome”


Just my 2 cents

-Mp

 

[RatFink]

How 'bout'?

A Rat Rod bike is any bike build that would make a purest uptight bike restorer nervous? LOL

Once again...lets not get too hung up on definitions. :roll:

 

[Clothespin n]

A can of worms indeed. One could write an encyclopedia trying to analyze, define and categorize the various types of custom car cultures and sub-cultures. Even the term “Rat Rod” is controversial.

Generally speaking, the bikes here tend to be vintage or vintage style cruisers customized with traditional hot-rod styling influences.

BUT, having said that, there is quite a diverse selection of custom rides here. We’ve got choppers, muscle bikes, lowriders, stretch limos and even at least one fixie! The common bond is a Do-It-Yourself attitude with a willingness to share ideas and knowledge. I truly hope that we, as an online community, don’t become afflicted with “True Believer Syndrome”

I couldn't have said it better myself :!:......
peace,
Kev.

 

[skoda]

Yes, I agree with all of these responses. Thanks, and I agree that keeping it simple is the real core of all this, cars, bikes, lifestyle. I think it's great to discuss this stuff but agree people get ridiculous when it comes to their egos.

I'm not so much concerned with if we are using "correct" terminology to outline what is being done and box it in, but if there is something happening, it's cool to recognize it as an original idea, that way when some jerk shoots his mouth off about what is and what isn't you can tell them they don't need to be concerned. I don't want to turn into that either.

So, thanks for the responses, I was also curious about the origins of the site. Rat Rod mentioned someone getting all bent out of shape about the use of the name, etc, being a newbie, I wasn't around for that. That's too funny. Getting all torqued about bicycles.
:mrgreen:

 

[Clothespin n]

Skoda...we had a Member here at The begining......
I won't mention his name SPIRAL-OUT..ooops
That slipped....he who was a great kid.

He was wittie,smart and then he opened his mouth and started
beakin off about how all Rat Roddders where wanna-be Rockobillie
greasy scum.He continued to go on about how The whole
Rat Rod sceen was a bunch of guys throwing Junk together
to make a car!!!

I am all for a good constructive conversation,
but when a guy starts stereotyping something.....anything..
or a guy get's all ONE SIDED about any topic in life It
gets my back up!


The Only thing that really erks me in The Bike and Car sceene.....
and this is a personal thing for me
...is when someone spells The words
" Cool..Custom...Cars...Culture "...like this "Kool..Kustom..Kulture"

funny thing with that is ,that it frigin drives me nuts when people spell
it that way....and my 2 favourite Magazines are
Ol' Skool Rodz, and Car Kulture De Lux..... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: go figure.....

So I guess I better put my "One Sided Ego" in check on that one! :mrgreen:

peace,
Kev.

 

[skoda]

The Only thing that really erks me in The Bike and Car sceene.....
and this is a personal thing for me
...is when someone spells The words
" Cool..Custom...Cars...Culture "...like this "Kool..Kustom..Kulture"

Probalby a good thing that this is the only thing that erks you. Note that I don't spell them that way, I grew up in a family of teachers and just can't. (they couldn't seem to break me of run on sentences ) :lol:

The K thing is just a word nuance I figure and the widespread use just re-enfoces the point that this is a new and different "scene" because correct me if I'm wrong, they didn't use those words or spellings in the 30's-60's.

I guess that it what I'm getting at, those are new words, wondering what new ones will be spawned here.

On a somewhat related note, a friend decided to let his 4 year old name the new puppy. What did he name him? "Frame".

I thought that was the best dog name / thing I had ever heard. THAT is original and pure!!!

 

[Multipass]

Historical factoid ---> I believe it was the Barris brothers who started using “Kustom” to differentiate their shop from the other custom shops of the time.


-Mp

 

[Rat Rod]

The Only thing that really erks me in The Bike and Car sceene.....
and this is a personal thing for me
...is when someone spells The words
" Cool..Custom...Cars...Culture "...like this "Kool..Kustom..Kulture"

funny thing with that is ,that it frigin drives me nuts when people spell
it that way....and my 2 favourite Magazines are
Ol' Skool Rodz, and Car Kulture De Lux

Hey Cev...I mean Kev,

I'm guessing you stay away from these places then....ha ha!

 

[aka_locojoe]

I suppose to me a "rat rod" bike would be an old classic rusty/faded/primered frame with maybe a new drivetrain and tires.

Here's what I think about the website. There are already sites like CBN that deal with mostly choppers and handmade frames. There are also many good sites that deal with original and restored antique/classics.
I'd like to see this site embrace most any kind of rat rod or kustom bike that is based on a stock frame. Especially now that Kustom Cruisers is shutting down. Bike kustomizers like myself need a place to hang out.

I too had heard that it was Barris that coined the spelling "kustom". Even though I normally hate the misuse of the "k" in words I have adopted it when referring to bikes. I suppose to acknowledge Barris.

 

[Hooch]

The Only thing that really erks me in The Bike and Car sceene.....
and this is a personal thing for me
...is when someone spells The words
" Cool..Custom...Cars...Culture "...like this "Kool..Kustom..Kulture"


.

do you feel that way when the kustom kemps of america uses it?
http://www.kustomkempsofamerica.com/

 

[ricksterr1221]

I too had heard that it was Barris that coined the spelling "kustom". .

I met george barris I got his auto graph

 

[nogoodnic42]

gee all this talk has peeled back my eyelids, i thought "Rat Rod" just meant as cool as possible for as cheap as possible. just my personal generic definition. I think the build off has shown a good deal of "Rat Rods" with that bein said.

I completely agree with CCR. If a set of rules to define what a rat rod is were to be laid down it would be the begining of the end for the scene. Take for instance the low rider bunch, not my favorite style of bike but there is a set judging form/check list where you need to use a certain frame and have certain acceseries to be able to compete. When done they generally look like a demented Christmas tree as stated on CBN and completly unridable. They have limited themselves and are dying out.

While at the Grand Rapids Autorama I saw this truck that is not a stereotypical rat rod but in my eyes this S-10 screams rat and I give props to the guy who built it for thinking outside of the box. Sorry for the not so hot shots, it was crowded...Kelly

 

[ricksterr1221]

Oh man that truck is WILD! I love it got the cherry bomb mufflers and all haha. My uncle had a set of them on his 41 ford. I love that truck! Deff props 2 the builder

 

[xddorox]

I agree with CCR, great looking bikes on a budget. If we start categorizing, we'll start dying. But I don't think this will happen here since we all are willing to share and innovate. Hot Rods in the beginning were about going fast for less money than the guys who could afford sports car and I think that this group captures that philosophy well even though our main goal is to make something cool rather than fast. We are at the beginning of something big ladies and gentlemen. Enjoy the moment. 8)