Revenant

[us56456712]

I made a jig on one of my work tables. I put a lag bolt through the pedal tread on the removed pedal and braced up the frame. The lag bolt bent. I then used a wood shim, bench vice and carpenters clamp to keep everything that I didn’t want to move secure. I used a two foot well pipe for a leverage extension and used my hip and leg power to provide force. The crank arm was flexing and I thought I might break the pedal bolt in the crank arm. The work table was moving across the yard until I used a little upward motion of my leg power so the table legs would sink into the yard instead of scooting. The pedal threads moved but didn’t get any looser. I screwed it back in, then out to where it got super tight, used more penentrant and now I’m waiting for that to work before I go the rest of the way. It will most likely come out now, but it won’t turn without the extension and jig attachment to the table. Fourteen miles north, in Munising by Lake Superior, it’s currently 46F out. Here away from Lakes Michigan and Superior it’s 84F, in the shade. The frame Is in the sun soaking up more penetrant.

 

[us56456712]

Oh gosh, each layer of rust encrusted parts I try to remove is harder and harder. At this rate nuclear power won’t do it. Next step, I’ll try to fab a coffee can with cut outs so the crank arm is submerged in penent for two weeks.

 

[user 26311]

Ok I’ve actually done this and it works like magic! Not sure if it’ll work for this application though. Old big block fords “FE” family of engines were notorious for having the upper exhaust manifold bolts seized and they would snap off. When I work at an automotive machine shop we would heat the head with a torch around the broken bolt then put paraffin wax on it. The wax would melt and would seep into the bolt hole around the bolt and free it up. It would also act as a lubricant to help you unscrew the broken bolt. I’ve seen many of bolts removed this way!

 

[us56456712]

Ok I’ve actually done this and it works like magic! Not sure if it’ll work for this application though. Old big block fords “FE” family of engines were notorious for having the upper exhaust manifold bolts seized and they would snap off. When I work at an automotive machine shop we would heat the head with a torch around the broken bolt then put paraffin wax on it. The wax would melt and would seep into the bolt hole around the bolt and free it up. It would also act as a lubricant to help you unscrew the broken bolt. I’ve seen many of bolts removed this way!

I’ve actually come across this idea in my rust bust research. I had an FE 390 motor that I was rebuilding 30 years ago but had to junk it when we remodeled our kitchen. I couldn’t find a 1950s Fairlane for it. My wife tolerates anything, as long as I don’t stray. That was a long time ago. It was a police interceptor engine so it already had some factory hot rodding, I think it had solid lifters? Not sure. I had a line on 427 or 428 cams and heads for it from a blown engine but never got them. The seller was a jerk. I lost a $50; junk yard deposit before I figured out it as all 390 Thunderbird junk. One of my buddies bought a 410 Mercury station wagon after high school graduation for his university car. He took off the oil pan, crawled under it and spent the summer rotating the crank and burnishing the journals with bearing paper to get it 10 under, I think, can’t remember 50 + years ago. I thought about doing this with my engine but he said you have to keep a mic on it and not run on one place too long. This 410 wagon car was legendary, full of students from Michigan State in Lansing to Sault Ste Marie each weekend. Of course, it had to average one mile and hour for each cc, reduced tom110; mph, ha. This engine ended out in a 1965 3/4 ton truck ford muddier, It had the old 4 speed, not an auto so the Detroit balance was messed up and the crank broke. Thanks, I forgot about this paraffin technique. I’ll try the heat and paraffin, can’t hurt.

 

[us56456712]

I worked on my rim today. I put the first coat of stain on it. I’m going for the aged worn look to match the bike.

 

[us56456712]

It’s getting harder to remove parts. This is the next challenge, removing the big crank screw head bolt. Heat, freeze, Gibbs and pounding, nothing. My homemade tool to fit the screw slot did a twist flex but it didn’t move It. Since the black flies are so bad I’ll leave it submerged in xylol and automatic transmission fluid for two weeks.

 

[RustyGold]

Impact driver?

 

[us56456712]

Impact driver?

Thats a thought that hadn’t occurred to me. I have a big Bosch hammer drill. I could grind and file one of my old masonry chisels to fit the screw head. It will destroy the cap head but it might work if nothing else does. If two weeks of soaking doesn’t work, then I’ll try a few days of ultrasonic vibration. Sometime in the past someone tried to get it apart and wowed out the screw slot. There is play in the bb and I speculate that someone tried to get it apart to fix this 100 years ago.

 

[Captain Awesome]

I've had luck in the past with taking the blade out of a jigsaw and just putting that on the fastener and running it on high and letting the vibration bust loose inside. Not sure it's the answer for you but might be worth to try

 

[KJV]

Dig'n this one.

 

[Couch tater]

A drag link driver socket and an impact driver should get it done

 

[us56456712]

A drag link driver socket and an impact driver should get it done



View attachment 193276

That would have to be ground down but it’s hollow ground. That’s the best idea yet. I can borrow an electric impact driver. Electric drivers never took off my stuck wheel lugs so I never bought one. I would feel comfortable with using an electric one on this crank though. This idea should work.

 

[Couch tater]

This is the impact driver I'm talking about. With this and a 32oz hammer, that screw would come out. If it wasn't for the few hundred miles between us I'd loan you my tools to get it done.

 

[Frankie plekhand]

This is the impact driver I'm talking about. With this and a 32oz hammer, that screw would come out. If it wasn't for the few hundred miles between us I'd loan you my tools to get it done.

View attachment 193288

This should get it done!

 

[RustyGold]

This is the impact driver I'm talking about. With this and a 32oz hammer, that screw would come out. If it wasn't for the few hundred miles between us I'd loan you my tools to get it done.

View attachment 193288

This is the impact driver I was referring to...not a hammer drill..well, not yet

 

[us56456712]

This is the impact driver I'm talking about. With this and a 32oz hammer, that screw would come out. If it wasn't for the few hundred miles between us I'd loan you my tools to get it done.

View attachment 193288

I ordered a drag link driver socket today, one with the smallest head width I could find. I’ll have to file it to fit. My neighbor has an electric impact driver I can borrow.

 

[OddJob]

"....they call me Impact Driver..." to the tune of an old Simon and Garfunkel tune...



music to 'impact' by.

 

[us56456712]

Eight days submerged in a concoction of xylene, acetone and ATF. The crank arm bolt still won’t budge. It’s back submerged in the deadly concoction. Just like the pedal I removed, prolonged soaking did nothing. Force to the point of busting stuff off is all that works. I might weld the drag link socket to the slotted bolt. The bolt will get red hot and the impact wrench won’t be able to work out of the slot. Red hot heat and extreme force will cause something to give. I’ll use the two foot well pipe for an extension and bounce it with all my weight and leg force. I always wondered what would happen when an irresistible force meets an immovable object.

 

[Tallbikeman]

That would have to be ground down but it’s hollow ground. That’s the best idea yet. I can borrow an electric impact driver. Electric drivers never took off my stuck wheel lugs so I never bought one. I would feel comfortable with using an electric one on this crank though. This idea should work.

Heat and soaking have always been as reliable as anything else. What brand of crank is it. It doesn't look like a Fauber Patent crank. This bike was built before the Fauber patent. Yours looks to have a two piece crank assembly. Is the bottom bracket shell the same dimensions of the modern 1 piece crank.

 

[us56456712]

Heat and soaking have always been as reliable as anything else. What brand of crank is it. It doesn't look like a Fauber Patent crank. This bike was built before the Fauber patent. Yours looks to have a two piece crank assembly. Is the bottom bracket shell the same dimensions of the modern 1 piece crank.

I haven’t measured the outside bb diameter, and yes it’s a two piece crank, Chicago Monarch patent. The old Monarch newspaper advertisements indicate a company crank patent where a special tool is required for removal and I’m hoping that is the tool for the slotted bolt. There is no hole in the underside of the bb like the Pope models. This bicycle was built between 1892 and 1899, but most likely not 92 or 99 as they made fewer each of those years. Someone said it’s probably before 1896? The chain tension mechanism is also a company patent that requires a special tool but it looks like you can adjust it by just sliding the axle back in the rear fork. There are some weird tabs on the rear forks and one fork end is badly worn and will need repair. Perhaps someone tried to adjust the chain tension without the special tool. I‘m planning on fixing the fork end by welding and using antique chain tugs, but I’m nowhere near that yet. It was obviously crashed by the bar, crank arm, pedal, chain stay and grip damage. I think it was then put away and forgotten for over a 100 years. How else could it rust up so solid that penetrating oil won’t work it’s way in? A bead of penetrant never goes down, stays a bead for days without soaking into the rusty bolt. I wonder if the parts were greased and all the grease volitles evaporated, leaving only paraffin, which penetrating oil won’t break down. Only xylene will dissolve paraffin compounds. It’s currently been submerged in 1/3 xylene, 1/3 acetone and 1/3 automatic transmission fluid since May 12. Heat, freezing and pounding we’re applied 3 times, then back to soak. No budge yet. What are your thoughts if it has a standard one piece bb outside diameter? It’s soaking in the wood shed behind garden power tools and wood storage to keep it hidden from prying eyes. I’ll probably go and remove it from its hiding place tomorrow. Then I’ll measure the bb and try more extreme force to try and get it apart. I’m tired of fighting my way through the shed to get at it anyway.