Stuck spindle in a bottom bracket

[us56456712]

I have a sealed Mountain bike BB spindle that won't come out. Neither the adjustable or fixed cups move. A tool sort of like an old free wheel puller is required. I tried BP Blaster, heat and an impact wrench. It won't move. The spindle ends are very short and the largest chain wheel I can put on it and still have frame clearance is 24 teeth, so I need a new BB. Does anyone have any ideas to remove the cups before I resort to my extreme measures? The measures I will try if no one has an alternative is to support the BB and take a sledge hammer and drive the spindle out with the plastic side down. Then cut the hardened cups out with a dremel or saws all. I don't have good eyesight and am not steady so I will probably goober up the threads, but I will try not to. If the threads are goobered I will attempt to weld in a new BB. Any other ideas to try would be greatly appreciated. One thing learned is that a bare frame makes so much noise with an impact wrench that ear protection is a must. Other than that I didn't learn much. Stumped

BB with short spindle ends

Plastic end with the grippers stripped off.

Spindle end anchored with a steel fitting.

 

[jerrykr]

Wow, that is a problem. Can you find a piece of pipe or strong tubing that would just fit inside the large metal ring. Have someone weld it to the ring, and get on it with a pipe wrench?? I think I would avoid messing up the threads only as a last resort. The Park BB surfacing and threading tool is $400.00. Be sure that you are turning the threads the correct direction. Wishing you luck!

 

[SILVERKINGPC]

Is that an old titanium frame? It looks to me like a std. BB tool for those threaded bb's is required: a 21-toothed tool goes over the spindle into the black notched area(not plastic), and allows you to unscrew the bb. The tool is easily available. Post a pic of what tools you have used so far...
No hammer yet!! Reverse threads I believe...
Try this...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Park-Tool-B...246229?hash=item4d3301edd5:g:CHAAAOSw5ZBWID8I

 

[us56456712]

Is that an old titanium frame? It looks to me like a std. BB tool for those threaded bb's is required: a 21-toothed tool goes over the spindle into the black notched area(not plastic), and allows you to unscrew the bb. The tool is easily available. Post a pic of what tools you have used so far...
No hammer yet!! Reverse threads I believe...
Try this...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Park-Tool-B...246229?hash=item4d3301edd5:g:CHAAAOSw5ZBWID8I

Thanks, I borrowed the tool, it was the right one. It's stuck beyond all recognition. A bike shop gave me the frame because they could not get it out.

 

[us56456712]

Is that an old titanium frame? It looks to me like a std. BB tool for those threaded bb's is required: a 21-toothed tool goes over the spindle into the black notched area(not plastic), and allows you to unscrew the bb. The tool is easily available. Post a pic of what tools you have used so far...
No hammer yet!! Reverse threads I believe...
Try this...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Park-Tool-B...246229?hash=item4d3301edd5:g:CHAAAOSw5ZBWID8I

It could be titanium. It is light as heck, which is the reason I want to save it. If it is titanium I won't be welding in a new bottom bracket.

 

[us56456712]

Wow, that is a problem. Can you find a piece of pipe or strong tubing that would just fit inside the large metal ring. Have someone weld it to the ring, and get on it with a pipe wrench?? I think I would avoid messing up the threads only as a last resort. The Park BB surfacing and threading tool is $400.00. Be sure that you are turning the threads the correct direction. Wishing you luck!

That could work if you could get in there to weld and get the grease out. Not sure about either. Your pipe idea makes me think that I could use another BB, put it into my giant vice and try and press it out? Perhaps I could put it in my drill press and try to drill around it to make it weak, but it has hardened cups. Perhaps a carbide drill?

 

[LukeTheJoker]

Can you find a piece of pipe or strong tubing that would just fit inside the large metal ring. Have someone weld it to the ring, and get on it with a pipe wrench??

Good idea! @us56456712 I think what he means is that you need to unscrew the metal threaded cup, this one:



If you slip a pipe just inside it and weld just the cup to it, you will have something to grip with a vice or pipe wrench... Great idea, that would definitely be what I would try next...

Luke.

 

[LukeTheJoker]

Like this:

The weld should also shrink the cup slightly, and put some heat through the threads, all good news for getting it out with no damage to the frame.

Luke.

 

[us56456712]

Like this:

The weld should also shrink the cup slightly, and put some heat through the threads, all good news for getting it out with no damage to the frame.

Luke.

OK, I will try that. I got his idea before but with both of you thinking it might work I will try it. Welding would concentrate the heat better. All my tubing is too thin walled, it would just collapse. I think a piece of black water pipe in there would be strong enough if it comes in the proper size. I'll have to go the the hardware store and check it out. I don't think I could apply any more force with the pipe wrench than I already did with the impact wrench, but the concentrated heat would probably help.

 

[user 135]

I doubt it is titanium with the brass brazing that I see.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[RustySprockets]

We faced a similar dilemma about eight weeks ago during one of our re-build classes. The team managed to bugger up TWO Park BBT22 sockets and ruin the handle. We managed to drive the cartridge out in pieces, but the collars wouldn't budge--they had to be ground with a Dremel wheel to weaken their chokehold, then knocked out in segments with a cold chisel. Good news, though, is that the BB shell and its threads were preserved.

I don't wish this curse on anybody.

 

[RustySprockets]

Remember: the drive side is left-hand threaded--turn clockwise to remove.

 

[user 135]

Looks like you may still have enough plastic nubs to have a go at it. Make sure to bolt the tool in always. And left side(non-drive) is counterclockwse while the right side(Drive) is clockwise or reverse threaded.

This is an awesome writeup on how to remove a stubborn BB.
http://www.808.dk/?stuck-bottom-bracket-removal

It is possible that the BB is unremovable from the frame due to corosion or cross threading on the installation.

Destructive methods found elsewhere

Yep, UN54 bottom brackets can be dismantled with a sharp tap of a lumphammer on the drive side - the innards spew out in one piece onto the workshop floor. I finally cracked it by bolting the BB tool into the metal cup with an M16 aircraft nut and bolt, put the tool in the vice and heaved.

Anglegrind face of fixed cup off completely. drill a 5mm hole through the bottom of the bb shell, about half depth of cup from end of shell. don't drill through the cup, just the bb shell. insert punch through hole, strike hard. bb cupis hard/brittle, so will split/ shatter. most of it will fall out straight away, tap rest out gently with punch.

 

[Bicycle808]

The drive side is metal, and if the splines are intact, you should try to do this with the tool. It helps f you have a buddy who can help you with this. Here's the steps I generally take:
1- try to remove it like a normal person. (It seems like you've already completed this step.)
2- If it doesn't budge with normal methods (like others said, make sure you're turning it to the right to loosen the driveside), then douse it in penetrating oil, and wait a day or so to make sure it's worked itself in there. It will be helpful to remove the seatpost and drip some into the BB shell that way.
3-After the penetrating oil has soaked in, find a way to stabilize the frame (use your bike stand but failing that, use a bench vise; make sure you take care to not crush any frame tubes.) Use a big ol' adjustable wrench to grip the BB removal tool. slide a 2 or 3' piece of pipe over the wrench's handle ("cheater").
4- have your buddy hold the tool steady in the driveside BB cup, and hold the frame firmly, while you use all your weight and strength on the end of the cheater to turn it to the right. If your buddy is stronger/fatter/more psychotic than you are, switch places.
5- If you can remove the driveside, than you should be able to remove the busted up plastic piece by carefully destroying it, once you take all the guts out.
6- Once it's all out, take all of the leftover bits and throw them away. Vow to never ever do this again. Look into the external-bearing style cranks, b/c despite my strong Luddite leanings, that set up is far superior for BSC-threaded bottom bracket systems. If you feel you must stick with square taper, consider loose ball systems or all-metal cartridge units, like the Shimano un55 or similar products from Tange and IRD. That plastic NDS cup in most Shimano cartridge ST BBs is a turd. In any case, make sure you generously grease the BB shell's threads, after making very sure that they are clean and in good shape. Chase them if you need to....

HTH

 

[user 135]

.... have your buddy hold the tool steady in the driveside BB cup, and hold the frame firmly, while you use all your weight and strength on the end of the cheater to turn it to the right. If your buddy is stronger/fatter/more psychotic than you are, switch places.

No buddy needed...unless he is there for moral support. Always bolt the BB tool in place. Allow only a tick of wiggle room. You may have to loosen the bolt set up as you undo the BB. This method also allows you to place the tool in a vice and turns your frame into the wrench.

 

[us56456712]

The drive side is metal, and if the splines are intact, you should try to do this with the tool. It helps f you have a buddy who can help you with this. Here's the steps I generally take:
1- try to remove it like a normal person. (It seems like you've already completed this step.)
2- If it doesn't budge with normal methods (like others said, make sure you're turning it to the right to loosen the driveside), then douse it in penetrating oil, and wait a day or so to make sure it's worked itself in there. It will be helpful to remove the seatpost and drip some into the BB shell that way.
3-After the penetrating oil has soaked in, find a way to stabilize the frame (use your bike stand but failing that, use a bench vise; make sure you take care to not crush any frame tubes.) Use a big ol' adjustable wrench to grip the BB removal tool. slide a 2 or 3' piece of pipe over the wrench's handle ("cheater").
4- have your buddy hold the tool steady in the driveside BB cup, and hold the frame firmly, while you use all your weight and strength on the end of the cheater to turn it to the right. If your buddy is stronger/fatter/more psychotic than you are, switch places.
5- If you can remove the driveside, than you should be able to remove the busted up plastic piece by carefully destroying it, once you take all the guts out.
6- Once it's all out, take all of the leftover bits and throw them away. Vow to never ever do this again. Look into the external-bearing style cranks, b/c despite my strong Luddite leanings, that set up is far superior for BSC-threaded bottom bracket systems. If you feel you must stick with square taper, consider loose ball systems or all-metal cartridge units, like the Shimano un55 or similar products from Tange and IRD. That plastic NDS cup in most Shimano cartridge ST BBs is a turd. In any case, make sure you generously grease the BB shell's threads, after making very sure that they are clean and in good shape. Chase them if you need to....

HTH

All this had been tried already. We also put the tool in a giant vice and used the whole frame for leverage. Any more force and the frame will be permanently bent as it was springing pretty significantly. Back to the sledge hammer idea, but I have doubts about this working.

 

[us56456712]

No buddy needed...unless he is there for moral support. Always bolt the BB tool in place. Allow only a tick of wiggle room. You may have to loosen the bolt set up as you undo the BB. This method also allows you to place the tool in a vice and turns your frame into the wrench.

tried it already, won't budge.

 

[us56456712]

Looks like you may still have enough plastic nubs to have a go at it. Make sure to bolt the tool in always. And left side(non-drive) is counterclockwse while the right side(Drive) is clockwise or reverse threaded.

This is an awesome writeup on how to remove a stubborn BB.
http://www.808.dk/?stuck-bottom-bracket-removal

It is possible that the BB is unremovable from the frame due to corosion or cross threading on the installation.

Destructive methods found elsewhere

Yep, UN54 bottom brackets can be dismantled with a sharp tap of a lumphammer on the drive side - the innards spew out in one piece onto the workshop floor. I finally cracked it by bolting the BB tool into the metal cup with an M16 aircraft nut and bolt, put the tool in the vice and heaved.

Anglegrind face of fixed cup off completely. drill a 5mm hole through the bottom of the bb shell, about half depth of cup from end of shell. don't drill through the cup, just the bb shell. insert punch through hole, strike hard. bb cupis hard/brittle, so will split/ shatter. most of it will fall out straight away, tap rest out gently with punch.

plastic nibs are gone, there is only a shadow in the plastic moulding. I will use your other ideas to see if I can get it out. Thank you.

 

[us56456712]

I doubt it is titanium with the brass brazing that I see.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I can drill it and file it so it's cromo.

 

[SILVERKINGPC]

What a nightmare!!! The bb cups may have aerospace grade epoxy on the threads! Or metal sieze of some sort. Big problem. Try taking out the still-good steel side (non-drive) by trying a clockwise. then counter. See if it moves. I looked once more at your problem frame, and it looks like (maybe)the drive side of the bb was installed into the non-drive side, locking the cups in place in the bb threads. If this is what is going on here, you have your hands full, and you will need to destroy the bb with drills, grinders, dremel, and a lot of hammering. If the above is true, a salvage attempt on a good frame is worth it. You may be able to salvage it. Keep us all posted!....bummer..