Wear a helmet. Seriously.

[RustyGold]

Why, because I continually see people riding without lights in dark areas with heavy traffic and causing dangerous situations because of it.
Giving police the ability to fine people for doing this seems like a possible solution to me.

But...if there is already a law on the books (and there most likely is) that covers it, how is adding a second or third law going to make the police actually do something about it? The reality is that cops are like everyone else...they do what they need to do to draw a paycheck and stay off the skyline. If you tell the officers in a jurisdiction to focus on bicycle lights, they will...at the expense of something else.

Besides... I'm not going to mount a dumb light on my BMX bikes...or serious mountain bikes. I have temp lights that I grab if there is any chance of night falling while I'm still pedaling. Little silicone critters that wrap on the seatpost and handlebars. Most the unlighted riders I see are the homeless/tweakers...who are breaking plenty of laws at any particular moment and could care less if they are breaking one more.

 

[RustyGold]

I'm not going any further down the costs to society of not mandating helmets (or seatbelts, or ???)...I consider the argument irrelevant, and stated the reasons why. I live in a country founded on ideals... I'm sticking with the ideals even if the politicians, big business, and most the people are worshipping the almighty dollar.

 

[Verrt]

But...if there is already a law on the books (and there most likely is) that covers it

Is there a law? I don't know, but I'm for it.
Never said I'm for multiples of the same law. You asked why I thought there should be a law, I said why.

If you tell the officers in a jurisdiction to focus on bicycle lights, they will...at the expense of something else.

One of many reasons people are pushing for things like traffic violations and parking tickets to be handled by other departments than criminal enforcement now.
Crook catchers shouldn't be chasing down hipsters with no sense of self preservation to put lights on their bike, department of transportation or someone more relevant should.

I have temp lights that I grab if there is any chance of night falling while I'm still pedaling. Little silicone critters that wrap on the seatpost and handlebars.

Me too, except my rear one clips to my bag. Any sensibly written ordinance would be satisfied by a pocket with these in them.

 

[RustyGold]

If it's impossible to be happy in a helmet then maybe a couple sessions with a therapist are in order?

Not impossible. But, can be miserable in the summer.

 

[RustyGold]

I don't know the situation, but with only the data I'm gathering from all this you're quite the libertarian.

Unaffiliated Independent from age 18. I think your meaning is libertarian, not Libertarian...so, sure, somewhat. I don't fit in any one category, nor do I think anyone else should...but given the current political tribalism, it seems to be the norm.

I want to ask a question, and I mean no political angling or anything from it, I'm purely interested to hear the answer from someone with strong libertarian views, I've been wanting to ask for a while.

What are your thoughts on the times when the US gov has implemented a military service draft?
And secondly what are yiur thoughts on the people who have then avoided the draft?

You are probably asking the wrong person for a libertarian view on this subject. I am thankful for all the benefits I've reaped from being born in this country...and I believed at a very young age that I had the obligation to pay it back. A duty. So, I knew when I turned 16 I'd be going into the military. Within a week of turning 17 I'd joined the delayed entry program for the USMC. Two weeks after turning 18 I was in boot camp. I was in for the first gulf war, but was in SoCal for the whole thing. So I felt I never totally did my part. So when GW2 came around, I spent much of 2003-2007 in arguments with my wife about re-upping to do my part...2007 because when I turned 38 I was no longer eligible to reenlist in the USMC. I played around with the idea of joining the Natl Guard after that as they would have taken me up to 45 . So...I still don't feel I've done enough for my country.

So... conscription...an all volunteer professional military is the strongest you can have. But, in drastic times, drastic measures...so, Revolutionary War, Civil War, WW1, WW2 there was no doubt that bodies were needed. The consequences of not winning those wars was probably the demise of of the US. Korea and Vietnam... political messes and not fought to win...wastes of American lives in the long run. But, as far as conscription...if Uncle Sam calls, duty says that you respond. The whys and what fors are for civilians and politicians to hash out.

Draft dodging is treason. I don't think it should be punishable by death...but I think it, and tax evasion, should be punished by the stripping of citizenship.

 

[RustyGold]

Intersting. What I've researched has suggested differently. But until I start a campaign to change state policy I'm not going to dive back into the numbers.

I get what you mean about the cheapest option shouldn't dictate public policy.

There is another argument that I've purposely avoided making, even though I believe it. It usually doesn't hold much water with people of a "it's my right to live fast and die young" mindset. Even when they're not fast or young.

I care about people. All people, even the ones that have opinions that seem stupid to me, and I would rather they not die or be harmed needlessly.
I see helmet and seatbelt laws as caring for the people and putting in measures to keep them safe. I don't really see it as any different to legislated safety standards in automobiles.

You're not my mommy or my daddy...it is in no way your job to protect me from myself. This is my life. Your pretense that you know better than me what's best for me is arrogant and bizarre.

All I wanted was a Pepsi!

Safety standards in a consumer product are not analogous. Perhaps nanny controls in modern vehicles, however, are... especially when non defeatable.

 

[RustyGold]

Is there a law? I don't know, but I'm for it.
Never said I'm for multiples of the same law. You asked why I thought there should be a law, I said why.

There isn't a law...but, as I said before, I doubt that there is a single jurisdiction (US) that doesn't have laws for either bicycles or general non powered vehicles (most likely both) concerning proper illumination at dusk.

One of many reasons people are pushing for things like traffic violations and parking tickets to be handled by other departments than criminal enforcement now.
Crook catchers shouldn't be chasing down hipsters with no sense of self preservation to put lights on their bike, department of transportation or someone more relevant should.

I've heard nothing like this...but it is a bad idea. Creating another policing department with all the required infrastructure when it is already duplicated several times over (municipal, county,state,etc)

Me too, except my rear one clips to my bag. Any sensibly written ordinance would be satisfied by a pocket with these in them.

You would hope.

 

[RustyGold]

My theme song for my last couple weeks on this site...

 

[Verrt]

All I wanted was a pepsi

 

[Verrt]

I think your meaning is libertarian, not Libertarian...so, sure, somewhat.

Yeah, the ideology, not the party.

but given the current political tribalism, it seems to be the norm.

Tell me about it.
I'm a moderate by the law of averges because many things that I believe strongly in have been assigned to different parties and opposite sides of the spectrum by other people.

You are probably asking the wrong person for a libertarian view on this subject. I am thankful for all the benefits I've reaped from being born in this country...and I believed at a very young age that I had the obligation to pay it back. A duty. So, I knew when I turned 16 I'd be going into the military. Within a week of turning 17 I'd joined the delayed entry program for the USMC. Two weeks after turning 18 I was in boot camp. I was in for the first gulf war, but was in SoCal for the whole thing. So I felt I never totally did my part. So when GW2 came around, I spent much of 2003-2007 in arguments with my wife about re-upping to do my part...2007 because when I turned 38 I was no longer eligible to reenlist in the USMC. I played around with the idea of joining the Natl Guard after that as they would have taken me up to 45 . So...I still don't feel I've done enough for my country.

I would argue that the willingness to put you life and body on the line for your country pays any duty you owe, even if your country chooses not to use it to the full extent to the full extent you were willing to give.

I don't think you owe more, but if you still feel like you need to give more to your country, but the country says your fighting days are over, there's a tougher and more complex problem on your doorstep that needs solving. The junkies you're always talking about in your area. They're not happy, you're not happy, I doubt the community is happy. Think about a solution that doesn't ruin the neighborhood, dehumanize anyone, or push the issue onto anyone else's doorstep. Then work with the community to put your idea in place, then come up with a new idea when the first one fails, and enact that one, then another after that.
If you can do that you'd be a true American hero.

But, as far as conscription...if Uncle Sam calls, duty says that you respond. The whys and what fors are for civilians and politicians to hash out.

Draft dodging is treason. I don't think it should be punishable by death...but I think it, and tax evasion, should be punished by the stripping of citizenship.

Interesting.
Thanks for answering.
I wrote out a whole long thing on my thoughts, but then realized I solicited the answer from you and probably no ones interested in my thoughts on it

You're not my mommy or my daddy...it is in no way your job to protect me from myself. This is my life. Your pretense that you know better than me what's best for me is arrogant and bizarre.

I guess this gets down to the part where you just have to make a good home with people that are different from you.

On my scale wearing a seatbelt (for example) is a perfectly fine and benign thing for a government to ask me to do. It doesn't diminish my life, freedom, or happiness.
I don't feel like the state is being arrogant or knows better than me for asking me to do it.

What trips my bizzaro meter is when people choose to make minor inconveniences into giant ideological arguements about tyrannical governments.

But like I said, this is the part where you make a home with people who see things differently than you. And the collective result of the views is what is made into laws, customs, and culture.

 

[RustyGold]

I guess this gets down to the part where you just have to make a good home with people that are different from you.

Wisdom.

 

[MattiThundrrr]

I got a parking ticket yesterday. Since the lockdowns started, parking has been free in my town, trying to help the downtown businesses. I parked in a downtown lot, run by the city, did my shopping, and came back to a ticket on my windshield. Seems that it's only free at the meters, if you use a lot, you have to pay.

No matter your views on the institution, it is still a human creation, with all the inherent flaws. Some laws are worthy of respect. Some are stupid, and must be opposed.

 

[AndyA]

The Safety Committee approves of this discussion! A useful approach for talking to people who may resist safety measures is to ask them not to consider their own safety but consider the feelings of those that love (or at least tolerate) them. How would your * feel if they got a call from the hospital?

*fill in the blank: wife, kids, ratrodbikes forum members, dog, etc.

 

[MattiThundrrr]

I learned that perspective from the couch, as I watched my wife and the impact it had on her when she had to nurse me back to health after my motorcycle crash, while running our house and raising our spawn