Your thoughts on enhanced patina techniques

[bprophet]

I know there's a wide range pf opinions on patina vs paint, clear coat vs wax only, etc. To me, valid points are made by all sides, as long as it is approached mindfully.

To delve a bit deeper in the matter, I'd like to get some opinions and ideas about enhancing patina with subtle (or not) washes, tints, leafing techniques and other textural finishing techniques that have been used by folks here.

What has worked for you, and what has not? Any major warnings?
If crackle or orange peel is intentional, it can be a useful technique, too.
Actual chemical patinas, included - whether hot or cold - and rag, tortoise shell, collage, everything on the table. Feel free!
Examples:
Sometimes, one might want to "lock in" a look that is a bit flaky - to sand it would be to destroy that look. Not good. but you want to stop the rust process, and keep what's there. what would you do?
Or take a really good patina that is a bit washed out, and bring out contrast with antiquing or clear coat.
Or tie everything together with a tint, perhaps to contrast the fenders to the frame.

I add pics to help encourage thought experiments...what crosses your mind when you see stuff like this? :idea:

 

[Anonymous]

Cant fake natural patina.

Id leave it alone.

 

[jackdaw]

It's true, you can't fake it. You can make it awfully close though. But I know what you mean, bprophet, how do you preserve a patina like the flaking paint in the fourth picture. Any rubbing is going to chip off some of the flakes. They will come off anyway through use, where they are most exposed.

I have a very similar situation on a bike I haven't started working on, I don't know what I'm going to do there either. There is some original paint and I think two overpaints. It is flaking up like that, I may not do anything to the paint and let my using it take the process further. I've thought about this a lot and haven't come to any firm conclusions for myself.

Cool post man, and great unanswerable question!!! :lol:

 

[bprophet]

I'm glad you understood what I was aiming for Jackdaw. 8)

Exactly - never did I mention "faking" anything! (I don't like the word "fauxtina" for those very implications.) That is the simplistic good-bad dualistic conversation/religious war I DON'T want to have.

• preserving something in a certain state, so that it doesn't deteriorate from that state quickly upon use
  
  taking off SOME of a house paint layer that you want to leave traces of, either for aesthetics or out of respect for the history of the bike and the person that did it -- as is the case in the multi-layered green/blue/rust/white closeup above...

Sometimes this preservation can even enhance the visual appeal, by upping the saturation of the colors already there. In this case, it is a win/win. And isn't respecting the history of the bike -not just the factory's version - one of the reasons for ratrodders' love of patina?

If this were not legitimate enough, think about woodworkers using stains and varnishes - hey, that would is "only original once", right? What's with this "bringing out the woodgrain" fancytalk? Ain't it good enough from the sawmill?:wink:
And why would we even wax or clean a bike at all, or distress new parts to match the rest of the bike? Do we not get a rewarding feeling as a dull old finish becomes deeper and shinier?

So, enough on justification, and on to the point: technique - has anyone here ever worked surfaces in other ways besides waxing or clear coat? Tints and chemical patinas are common to a metal sculptor or clay artist.
Any hints as they might pertain to bikes?

 

[bprophet]

There is some original paint and I think two overpaints. It is flaking up like that, I may not do anything to the paint and let my using it take the process further. I've thought about this a lot and haven't come to any firm conclusions for myself.

Cool post man, and great unanswerable question!!! :lol:

That's an excellent case in point. Pictures would be good, as always.
You raise a crucial point here - we are a part of the bikes history, and we do take the process further- hence my emphasis on being mindful about this. How do we wish to proceed? Even the best preservation is a slowing down, rather than a permanent stopping, of the process.
A repaint restarts the clock, in a sense. But all that visual history that many of us find so appealing is gone. surely there are many great ideas in the space between doing nothing and repaint entirely.
That is the ideaspace we are exploring here.

So, rather than an unanswerable question, it is more like a question with many answers - and one that leads to many more questions. A fractal idea bomb, if you will.

Suffice to say, I will be experimenting in this realm.
And will share.
Maybe take some heat?
Probably, don't care. 8)

 

[jackdaw]

Dang man, fractal idea bomb!

 

[outskirtscustoms]

Normally I try to preserve the bike as close to what is factory as possible without re-doing anything. Just clean it and remove as much rust as possible on the chrome parts. Some other bikes I leave alone.

My general rule of thumb is if it looks like it will clean up to near NOS condition clean it up, if you can barely see the factory decals or scallops through the rust clean it a little to try to expose them better but don't take it all away. If it has been painted over I do a test spot to see what is under it and most times remove the re-paint and leave what is original. I try to keep the patinaed look just carefully take 10 years off the patina. Really depends on the bike and what condition it is in as to what I do to it.

 

[bprophet]

Normally I try to preserve the bike as close to what is factory as possible without re-doing anything. Just clean it and remove as much rust as possible on the chrome parts. Some other bikes I leave alone.
My general rule of thumb is if it looks like it will clean up to near NOS condition clean it up, if you can barely see the factory decals or scallops through the rust clean it a little to try to expose them better but don't take it all away. If it has been painted over I do a test spot to see what is under it and most times remove the re-paint and leave what is original. I try to keep the patinaed look just carefully take 10 years off the patina.

I pretty much agree with your approach on most bikes, Outskirtcustoms - when i get a nice Schwinn/Raleigh/etc they usually have enough to get back its full character.
Sometimes, the factory decals or pinstriping is too far gone to be a positive asset, and I will take that last 5-10% off so I can get a clean look - if the buyer then wants to add new decals they can. In Texas sun, Schwinn silkscreens turn to powder, so even plain water makes them run.
It turns out that a clean looking Racer or breeze really elicits some "Wow, what kind of bike is that?!?" responses. Here's examples of this-(believe me, they looked pretty awful when i got them!) - notice that I got the chrome bright when I could, but the fender stays and undersides were still bad, so I went with a rust converter/black instead - the buyers loved it.

The ones that get me thinking have pretty much faded or rusted to no I.D. at all, and have great patinas. Real patinas, not just scratches and rust spots here and there. To me, it is then about that character, and no longer about the original look. This is where I might differ from a restorer.

I do think Schwinn were at their best with the seat tube art in the 50s - those are stunning - but some of their quirky typefaced chainguards seem a bit over the top. I still leave them if there is any "there" there, but the symmetrical seat tube designs on a 58 panther had me working really hard to take the repaint off to reveal that!
So let me ask you: what are your techniques for judicious paint removal? Have you found good reliable ways to take off just want you want, and no more, so you can take off 10 years, and not 8 or 12?

Really depends on the bike and what condition it is in as to what I do to it.

Agree 110% It would make a good sigline! :lol:

 

[outskirtscustoms]

Well first I'll try to identify what kind of paint it is, Spray paint I have had good luck cutting right through it with just a little gasoline, a soft rag, and some careful scrubbing, Barn paint or house paint I have had good luck with lacquer thinner. I normally just turn the bike upside down and try everything I got on the bottom bracket one at a time and use whatever works best. Self taught by trial and error all the way. :mrgreen:

 

[sensor]

personally im not to big on "made" patina but sometimes its a necessary evil when you make something that has to match 90 or so years of age....
the stuff i used for mine is HERE
yeah i know its rattle can but the rules for the build offs were rattle can only then :shock: *edit* i forgot to mention that i took a razor blade and took some flakes of paint off as well so itd match better to the frame but it isnt in those pics.
you should also look in the how to stickies....clothespinin' had some good stuff as well as did boneshaker in rrbbo 3 as well :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

b,I know what your askin...(inquiring about) Faux Patina

The Dynaliner Coupe

http://blogs.hotrod.com/gibson-matches- ... -6081.html