A Zombie Reborn - the build thread

[SkyknightJohn]

Nothing happening to the build this trip home. Instead, the washing machine water pump gave up. Spent the day dissassembling & minimizing water mess. Easy enough fix, just a little wet. New pump arrives tomorrw.

Also, somewhere in the 3 moves over the last 4 years I lost my frame jig. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I have one of the tubes that was an extra. How & why that tube made it but the mains assembly didn’t, I’ll never know.

Was at the big box hardware store and thought to get some tubes, but got sticker shock. Steel has definitely felt the inflation. Considering options…

 

[Captain Awesome]

Nothing happening to the build this trip home. Instead, the washing machine water pump gave up. Spent the day dissassembling & minimizing water mess. Easy enough fix, just a little wet. New pump arrives tomorrw.

Also, somewhere in the 3 moves over the last 4 years I lost my frame jig. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I have one of the tubes that was an extra. How & why that tube made it but the mains assembly didn’t, I’ll never know.

Was at the big box hardware store and thought to get some tubes, but got sticker shock. Steel has definitely felt the inflation. Considering options…

View attachment 193624

You still in the Charlotte area and what are you thinking for materials for your fixture? I can see if any of my local contacts have material

 

[SkyknightJohn]

Yes, Charlotte still. Previously I used perforated square tube & 3/8” threaded rod.

Just something to align the axle & BB & HT. Mostly just mad at myself for losing it in the moves.

Lowes wants $28 for a 3 ft piece now. Which I need a 4 ft pc. anyway, (neither store nearby has 4ft) and thinking of another method, but angle steel is similarly priced.

It’s not really the cost as much as the sticker shock. If I’m going to be in it a few hundred, there are some more professional options out there.

Just have to decide how deep into the HOBBY I want to be & how to go about it.

a) not big-box store steel supply
b) flat-pack jig The Jiggernaut; or
c) ChopSource; or
d) The 8020 extruded aluminum frame jig
e) The angle steel method that clamps to the bench which I cannot find to link to right now.

If the axle, BB, & HT are aligned, All else can be whatever.

Lots of time off in later June and mid July, so I’ll stage a surge of progress then. Plenty of time to mull over options and steal gather ideas from perusing the other builds.

 

[Captain Awesome]

Yes, Charlotte still. Previously I used perforated square tube & 3/8” threaded rod. View attachment 193763
Just something to align the axle & BB & HT. Mostly just mad at myself for losing it in the moves.

Lowes wants $28 for a 3 ft piece now. Which I need a 4 ft pc. anyway, (neither store nearby has 4ft) and thinking of another method, but angle steel is similarly priced.

It’s not really the cost as much as the sticker shock. If I’m going to be in it a few hundred, there are some more professional options out there.

Just have to decide how deep into the HOBY I want to be & how to go about it.

a) not big-box store steel supply
b) flat-pack jig The Jiggernaut; or
c) ChopSource; or
d) The 8020 extruded aluminum frame jig
e) The angle steel method that clamps to the bench which I cannot find to link to right now.

If the axle, BB, & HT are aligned, All else can be whatever.

Lots of time off in later June and mid July, so I’ll stage a surge of progress then. Plenty of time to mull over options and steal gather ideas from perusing the other builds.

If I get back up to our Charlotte area plant soon I can check on a few things for you. A thought I had back when I was laying mine out was using pallet racking uprights. Those can usually be had used pretty cheap as scrap once they get hit and replaced. Our place up there swaps out quite a few each year

I was going to look for some 80 20 myself

 

[ScubaLFK]

a) not big-box store steel supply

onlinemetals.com is a decent option if you don't have a local place using a REAL supplier that'll sell you some.

 

[SkyknightJohn]

onlinemetals.com is a decent option if you don't have a local place using a REAL supplier that'll sell you some.

Thanks, I’m Familiar with it. Got my main tubes from Aircraft Spruce, as they have a very extensive selection of 4130. That’s why I was shocked at the Lowes pricing. Even the seat tube, specially sized and butted, from a bike frame supplier, was less.

A couple work trips and some pre-scheduled life events coming up, and I’ll mull over options.

Probably just lay it on the garage floor, tack it up, and call it a day!

 

[Captain Awesome]

Try Race Car Steel up in Mooresville. It's out by the dragstrip and they stock tons!

 

[barnbikes]

onlinemetals.com is a decent option if you don't have a local place using a REAL supplier that'll sell you some.

Be careful of this company. My work bought some 6160 aluminum from them lately and it arrived extremely scratched up. They did not care.

 

[SkyknightJohn]

Been a few days, but the goodness of Class 2 is that it is difficult to become a page 2 slacker when there is only 1 page!

Today is the first time in a few weeks that I have been home more that one full day at a time, so not much more has been done other that laundry and mowing the lawn.

I did have time to research a lot of frame jig options in detail, and watch a lot of internet videos. Seems the best way to build a budget frame jig is to have serveral thousands of dollars of machine shop tools already in your shop!

Someday, maybe. But we're on a deadline here!

Ended up purchasing the materials for an 8020 style jig as in the famous instructable The Simplest Bicycle Framebuilding Jig I could come up with...

Some of the Arctos copies claim to be better for one reason or another, but this one seems to need the least amount of machining.

Purchased the extrusion from Misumi, because it is about half the price of 8020 brand. Purchased the brackets and such from 8020 since they have a good selection and Misumi didn't seem to have a lot of options in that regard.

Some possible prep in the next few days, then more road trips, then two weeks of vacation to end June, so a lot of work planned then.

 

[SkyknightJohn]

Home for a few days. One more trip before vacation…

Received 3 of 4 shipments for building the frame jig. (Chopsource for cones, 8020 for brackets & fasteners, McMaster-Carr for threaded rod & misc) Misumi for the extrusions has been slow, yet to ship from order on the 6th. Might have been worth the extra $$ to go ahead from 8020. Though, cutting the extrusions to length may have been slower from them as well.

I’ll probably do a separate How-to thread on the assembly, or more like, ‘how I did it based on these how-to intructions.’

Some playing around:
- Each end in the pic is a differnt cone. Left for the BB, right for Head Tube.
- Tube is 1.5”x0.058”— 38mm o.d. vs. 36mm on a ‘real’ bike head tube (due to thinner wall)
- Middle is the seat tube cone.
- Bottom is my previous shower head version. Worked great for a 1” headtube and ‘good enough’ for a 1.5” BB.

You can see the BB cones are shorter, but fatter. Not sure why they need to be so much fatter. Shorter is explained on Chopsource’s site. Normal BB is the same as the tube pictured, 1.5” od.



A different look at the cones:

The BB cones are super oversized! Not sure what BB they are for. Being shorter base to peak doesn’t much matter since the tube bottoms out so soon. I.D. on both is 3/4”.

The 1.5” tube is for an EC34 headset. Same size as normal BBs. Those BB cones would easily fit a 44mm head tube. Do they make ‘em bigger? Probably the same cones they make for the motorcycle setup.

Purchasing the set (2 HT, 2 BB, 1 ST) was $20 less than indivdual pairs.

It’ll work. Awaiting the extrusion to begin.

 

[SkyknightJohn]

It has begun!

Spent the morning on yard projects, then a little afternoon time placing some jig pieces and checking measurements.

Lots of precise work to go. Still figuring the exact place of everything: know the end rails, top & bottom in the pic, will be on the back side of the longer, working the relationship of the BB & axle centers, the HT & ST brackets have to be raised (part of the plan anyway) to be on the centerline, or maybe not use the bottom of the BB cones to move the centerline closer to the frame, but still have enough axle dropout spread.

Evening for re-reading the instructable, doing some drawing, and thinking.

 

[Ulu]

I love those aluminum extrusions. This is a terrific application too.

I worked as an engineer for almost 6 years for a company that pressed aluminum extrusions, tempered, anodized, fabricated and painted them.

In order to make them straight, we put them on a machine that grabbed both ends of the 25’ stick and pulled it tight.

We weren’t making jigs, but aluminum windows for commercial buildings and high-rise buildings. 6063-T5 usually.

I have still have a few odd ball samples that might wind up as parts of my bicycles.

 

[Ulu]

. . . re-reading the instructable, doing some drawing, and thinking.

I was wondering if they warn you that aluminum expands three times as much (and three times as fast) as steel does, when you apply heat?

Keeping the jig at a consistent temperature from start to finish would be a good practice.

 

[SkyknightJohn]

That may be tough with weather fluxuations, but I’ll do the best I can. It’ll still be in the ‘good enough’ category for a once-a-year build.

If I was going pro, besides a better set up, I would climate control the space. [>hurries to another page to price ductless systems<]

For the welding, the frame will only be in the jig for tacking, so no worries there.

 

[Ulu]

If I want climate control welding, I have to kick my wife’s car out of the garage.

So I understand the problem.

I’m just working with all steel though so it’s a bit different.

 

[SkyknightJohn]

A little more jig construction today. I’m not going to do a full how-to, since the instructable and others are great, but some bits here and there.

He talks about using M8x19 button head screws for 3 of 4 corners of the frame, and when I first looked I wondered how those 19mm long screws were to get through 20mm of frame?

After looking and looking and thinking and thinking I realized the wrench access holes were only for the wrench. You pre-fit the screws and nuts, slide them in and together, square the frame and tighten.

The highlight lines are where the wrench access holes are.

(p.s.- I bought 8020 rather than 1530 because I like working in metric for bikes, sicnce so much is metric, and the maths is easier.)

Here the outer frame is together and tight. Spent plenty of time with the laser making sure the BB centerline and axle centerline match, with enough room on the axle for the dropouts. The orange tape marks the inside of the dropout.

I’m using M12 threaded rod, which fits into a pre-threaded base plate, on top of some spacers. This is a bit different from the instrucable, but I wanted the pre-threaded base. I’ll shave off some threading to bring it to 10mm for where the dropouts sit.

Also, I just attached all four corners in the above manner instead of making the axle corner differently. As is, this allows a minimum BB drop of 60mm, and the axle can slide upward to bring it into the more average 70-75mm range, or higher.

 

[BartRidesEternal]

Pretty neat jig build!
Just curious: Is it just for this build or did you keep future builds/frames into consideration size wise?

 

[SkyknightJohn]

Pretty neat jig build!
Just curious: Is it just for this build or did you keep future builds/frames into consideration size wise?

It’s fairly future proof. Will fit this build with a planned 48” wheel base and normal-ish seat & headtube height. (I’m 6’2”) Should be able to fit most cruiser, roadie, & rigid mtn bike styls or smaller.

Would need modified for extra long wheelbases, tandems, or really long travel forks on 29” wheels for example.

‘course, going smaller to a bmx, 24”, or whatever should be entirely possible.

 

[SkyknightJohn]

Price list for the jig, FWIW:
(June 2022, for future reference)

JIG PARTS total: $734.14
- Misumi $226.20 (alum extrusions, 2x 1210mm, 4x 800mm)
- 8020: $219.25 (all the brackets, t-nuts, screws, base plates)
- McMaster-Carr: $93.73 (3/4” & 12mm SS threaded rods, nuts, some handles)
- Chop Source: $194.95 (BB, HT, & ST cones

All told, about the same as buying the whole setup from Chop Source + the steel for the rails. I just preferred this style for weight & size of packing down. Couldn’t seem to find tube cones for a better price, though I did upgrade to SS.

The lowest price professional setup I found was about $2000, I think, and options went up sharply from there.
@ https://www.brewracingframes.com/bicycle-frame--fork-jigs.html

 

[SkyknightJohn]

Spent the morning with the wife sanding down and painting our bistro chairs. Been in the family for ages, probably last refinished in 2010 or so.

Between afternoon coats of paint I got the seat tube rail set up. Rotates on the center of the BB mounting plate, as described in the instuctable, and the slot in the upper bracket allows it to rotate between 8 and 28 degrees. I’d like to get 30, so I’ll extend the slot a bit. The Handle up top will replace the button head screw, but I need to cut down the length of its threaded bit.

Will do the same for the headtube rail, then the brackets for the HT & ST cones. Some kind of mount or stand, then I can get serious.