BUILD OFF #9 RULES EXPERIMENT?

[Funkme]

I notice in the traditional section in the past years,most builders just wanted to gender bend or widen the rear stays,to fit those fats we all love...So some changes are needed/wanted on traditional frames.
Bikes have been flipped etc in the past anyway's...Last year I also noticed a lot of simple klunkers being built...
Just do what is easy for the admin!!! It's all about fun...
If you want to make 2 building catergory's,then one should be for kids, and one for adults.That would give the kids a chance(as they dont have the welding skills etc.

 

[dracothered]

Two categories, both anything goes:
Stock frame( no modifications)
Modified frame ( would include scratch built frames)
Top 5 in each category

That is more or less the same as last years build off....

Beside anything goes mean and includes welding cutting and modifying.

 

[SILVERKINGPC]

xlnt info amigo!!! Muchisimas Gracias....

 

[AussieChick]

I'm ready for action!

 

[GuitarlCarl]

The only problem with your theory is some of the builds (during the winter build off) that scored high involved welding and that shoves them into the anything goes category under last years big build off setup. I doubt the custom builders will feel left out. Besides even Rat Rods need a torch taken to them once in a while so that ratty part you want to use on it will fit.

Ha! What theory? The top three were all traditional. Rightly so by the criteria we decided on beforehand... I'm only saying custom builders DESERVE their own category. I may have missed it but none of the builders who DO cut and weld seem to be clamoring for one big group.

Carl. < does weld...

 

[Rat Rod]

Okay, this is pretty funny.

Now we're saying that the folks who fabricate and weld are the ones threatened.

This sort of goes back to what I was saying before...just because someone can weld doesn't mean they have style.

 

[SILVERKINGPC]

Steel fabrication skills are cool...There have been times I have needed or wanted to do metalwork, but have only elementary torch, bending and grinding skills. What is a rat rod bike anyway? Not really define-able......... but it is true that in the end the voters determine what that is.
So.....being new at this site, I think that whatever the categories and rules, they should be easy to understand and encouraging to everyone. I really liked the idea to have a family category...great for kids and parents ......ride on!!!

 

[dracothered]

Ha! What theory? The top three were all traditional. Rightly so by the criteria we decided on beforehand... I'm only saying custom builders DESERVE their own category. I may have missed it but none of the builders who DO cut and weld seem to be clamoring for one big group.

Carl. < does weld...

Hey Carl, if you notice 3rd place involved cutting and welding. With the rules from the last year it would of got thrown into anything goes, but it wasn't really a custom bike.

1st "irRATional Fe203" by pick. 26 vote(s) 59.1% (No Welding)

2nd "Flatland Flyer" by bleedingfingers. 15 vote(s) 34.1% (No Welding)

2nd "DRAGUAR" by Missing Link. 15 vote(s) 34.1% (No Welding)

3rd "120 tooth Minivelo" by LukeTheJoker. 13 vote(s) 29.5% (Welding)

 

[sensor]

As stated, you can build everything yourself but it can still turn out looking like C**P. Or you can bolt everything and then some on to a bike and have it also look like C**P. Go with an all encompassing build off with no rules. You'll thank yourself in the long run(those who feel it isn't fair will complain, but it will stop the endless "they did..." "can I..." posts.) Also do away with the top 10. 1 winner, no prizes. Build or don't, the world won't stop or spin faster if you do or don't. These were supposed to be for fun and a common goal and *My opinion here. Others may vary.*, it seems for the most part they have gotten WAY off that path. Do what you like and enjoy it without anything but making something you are proud of and can ride.

 

[Funkme]

I weld and build my own frames,as seen in my last build.
I don't have a choice as Greece doesn't have those fab good ole US of A frames with curves...
But I don't feel the need to be in a special category to show off my skills.
Besides I think most people can see the difference between a custom frame to a original...
As long as it has wheels & rolls,it's all rat 2 me
I joined 2 build,make friends,and have a bucket load of fun...

 

[Chips_Mahoy]

Here's my 2.3 cents on this....

I'm good either way. I'm going to build what I've wanting to do for awhile. It's my party and I'll build what I want too!!

Some builders may not have the skills, resources or know-how to accomplish what they want. If they need a helping hand, so what?
If one builder is able to lend a hand to another builder in need, then so be it.
If my build gets disqualified because any of the above, oh well.

I'm not building to win. I'm not building to show off a trophy. I build with you all to be a part of this great group and to challenge my ideas, abilities and most of all, my patience. Not every bike will be everyone's taste but one of the biggest benefits of an event like this is we get to see what everyone else sees in their imaginations. Build what you want, be proud of it, and don't worry about over analyzing and nitpicking the rules. The time you spend doing that could've been time better served building.

I say "BUILD ON" and HAVE FUN!!! (Aerosmith's "Dream On" is on the radio right now....)

 

[GuitarlCarl]

Okay, this is pretty funny.

Now we're saying that the folks who fabricate and weld are the ones threatened.

This sort of goes back to what I was saying before...just because someone can weld doesn't mean they have style.

No, not threatened, just not represented, and I get that some cutting and modding of an existing frame is subject to the so called "Anything Goes" category. That is the rub, anyone stretching a frame or raking their forks get shunted to the AG, and possibly is at a disadvantage IF judged against a guy who builds his frame from scratch. But it's that last guy I'm talking about, the scratch builder. Using the Winter Build as an example look where Glenderson placed. There isn't a argument against placing that build higher. Put the Winter Build into two categories and see who is more fairly represented.

If you think that I'm advocating for myself you're wrong, I really don't care where I place. I build because I like to, and I'm learning. But I'd hate to see the full on custom builders show less of their bikes because they're not appreciated by the RatRod community. I can feel it just by advocating for them. It's not so fun being in this position. Just like the mildly modded bike that barely makes it into the AG category and feels unjustly judged. With my own eyes, I see the full on scratch builders overlooked too. But after all this is RRB forum, not the BuiltFromScratch forum, so if you disagree, good for you, you have that choice.

Although I do like the sentiment of 1 group 1 winner.... I'd miss the choice I had before, right now we have a CHOICE to be AG or not to be AG...

Carl.

 

[ODDER]

I'm in favor of, Build a rideable bike and don't start before May 1.

 

[GuitarlCarl]

Let's see... 3rd place WBO... sprocket big as a trashcanlid, cut and fabbed front end, scratch fabbed handlebars, tweaked frame to accommodate big sprocket.... no it's not an AG bike. But if it was, it would have been in 1st place! Yeah Draco you're right. 3rd place is much better... No rules wins!

Merle.

 

[kingfish254]

I say "BUILD ON" and HAVE FUN!!! (Aerosmith's "Dream On" is on the radio right now....)

How many votes a bike shoulda/woulda/coulda gotten isn't the point. Yes, because we have voting there is competition, and it is fun to gauge what other think of your build, but the main point of the build offs should be as Chips says - BUILD ON and above all HAVE FUN!!!!!!

 

[Funkme]

This is getting just as ridiculous as the other threads about the Buildoff (and the pre-talk prior to the previous three Buildoffs).
Just start building a cool bike on May 1st, and don't over think it between now and then.

I'm thinkin,I'm thinkin.... Should I use this or that,cut here or there,keep it rusty or paint it,and if what color,what name,will my parts arrive in time,will I finish,what beer should I drink...etc No time for rules !!!!

 

[Chips_Mahoy]

Just start building a cool bike on May 1st, and don't over think it between now and then.

Oh now you're asking for the IMPOSSIBLE!!!

 

[deven_science]

Okay, I'll weigh in, and try to settle this down a bit. Some of these comments defending the AG guys are almost hostile to others.

I will be scratch building a frame. The first year I entered, there was only one group, traditional, and I came in like 79th place. But hey, I was learning, and I still got the bike I wanted. Second year (last year), I was in the AG category, and came in 6th out of 29, I think. That may sound more impressive, but it kind of isn't. I'd rather be judged against everyone else, even if it means being 79th.

I'd prefer just one group, where each person brings their specific skill to it, so that you get a whole variety of builds going on. This is Ratrodbikes, so maybe the more traditional rat rods will prevail. But, Im okay with that. It's not my style.

Bottom line is, when the smaller group of us more extreme custom guys and gals were put into our own category, I thought it would solve the issue. Instead, it kind of made me feel like the unwanted kids off on our own playground, not allowed to mix with the regular kids.

 

[GuitarlCarl]

I was only afraid of losing builders like you, Deven, and I still am but,
limited rules gives the admin a break and I get that too.
So I'm all in, building a bucking bronco tandem that won't win any accolades, but it will be a lot of fun to ride. Would've been my first AG build too, because I want to incorporate rear steering, and my tandem doesn't... yet.

Carl.

Thanks for the moral support, and conversations sent.
You know who you are...

 

[dracothered]

It is interesting that this is such a heated debate and even so there is only 37 votes as of now. Some of those that feel strong about keeping two groups seem to be fighting for the other guy depending on which way you lean. What I think we see here is two build offs that were done to different ways and they are being compared to each other.

BO #8 had many entries in both Traditional and Anything Goes where the Winter Build Off had a few all lumped together (With basically no rules except it had to be ride able). Each one had a vote that you could pick multiple bikes in it. BO #8 had a high vote tally in the end and some bikes that were in each category could of held their own in either one. Some bikes in one or the other category may have done better in the other (namely the ones that got pushed into the anything goes because in order to build their bike they had to cut and weld or just plain old widen the rear stays. The winter build off had far fewer votes and I think most were leaning towards the rat rod themes that seemed to rise to the top in that small build off. We really don't know how the all out custom build will do in the big Build Off scene and by change this years build to what Steve has put up we can see what really happens.

I think many enter for two reasons, one is to compete and the other is just to have fun. Still deep down most want to be all in one group because that is the most fun way of doing it.

In the end it's Steve's site and we have to put up or shut up when he makes the choice of the final rules this year. I will still build what I am going to build no mater what. I may do it a little different if we have the two different categories than if we have one.

But in the END I WILL DO IT TO HAVE FUN