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Those drop center rims won't work with rod brakes either. No rim brakes will work, has to be a hub brake, coaster, roller, drum, or disc.
You forgot the spoon brake! I have only really seen one bike with a spoon brake. It was a Puch Waffenrad. I saw it at the Ann Arbor swap meet a few years ago and I almost bought it. I should have bought it. I knew that night that I should have bought it.

Next year I went back to find the vendor and he didn't have it anymore. It's my one that got away.

Anyway, a spoon brake is operated with a lever and rubs on the tire tread.
 
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You forgot the spoon brake! .... a spoon brake is operated with a lever and rubs on the tire tread.

Interesting idea. I really like the aesthetic of the some spoon brake designs, especially this execution in what looks to be fine quality castings on this Columbia high wheeler.
1673329334562.png


Here's a design that looks to be entirely bolted on, and is cable operated.
1673330956190.png



Our friend also neglected to mention Band Brakes, which I have heard are pretty popular for commuter bikes in Asia.

And there's also this style, which I used more than once when I was a kid. My buddy did 70+ miles on his Varsity carrying overnight camping gear with nothing more than Fred Flintstone brakes. His sneakers were shot before the return trip was over.
1673332220817.png


I think I'll just pick a coaster brake hub with a good reputation for durability, and try to avoid rebuilding both wheels. I don't mind spending a few dollars. Still a lot cheaper as a hobby than golf or drinking.

There are several options,drum,coaster sa,Sachs,Bendix all work great just keep in mind none of them will be cheap unless you get lucky and come across one cheap.

I do have a Bendix Red Band Automatic that I could use, although I was thinking of using it elsewhere. I wonder about the Sachs, which @bleedingfingers also recommended. If I find a Sachs that has the "3 nubs" pattern for interchangeable sprockets, like this H-3111,
1673333601445.png

will it accept Sturmey Archer sprockets? Are "skip tooth" sprockets available to fit this "3 nub" drive pattern?
 
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That's right I have band brakes on a few of my bikes. But they aren't that good and won't work rolling backwards plus they need a threaded hub like a freewheel.

Those spoon brakes look like they could be fabbed up fairly easily. I might try them on a fat bike, big serving spoons!

1673339117078.png
 
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Nexuses, also has a 3 speed coaster brake hub, I have one on my Sun cruiser bike works great........Curt
 

ingola

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Interesting idea. I really like the aesthetic of the some spoon brake designs, especially this execution in what looks to be fine quality castings on this Columbia high wheeler.
View attachment 221532

Here's a design that looks to be entirely bolted on, and is cable operated.
View attachment 221535


Our friend also neglected to mention Band Brakes, which I have heard are pretty popular for commuter bikes in Asia.

And there's also this style, which I used more than once when I was a kid. My buddy did 70+ miles on his Varsity carrying overnight camping gear with nothing more than Fred Flintstone brakes. His sneakers were shot before the return trip was over.
View attachment 221539

I think I'll just pick a coaster brake hub with a good reputation for durability, and try to avoid rebuilding both wheels. I don't mind spending a few dollars. Still a lot cheaper as a hobby than golf or drinking.



I do have a Bendix Red Band Automatic that I could use, although I was thinking of using it elsewhere. I wonder about the Sachs, which @bleedingfingers also recommended. If I find a Sachs that has the "3 nubs" pattern for interchangeable sprockets, like this H-3111,
View attachment 221540
will it accept Sturmey Archer sprockets? Are "skip tooth" sprockets available to fit this "3 nub" drive pattern?
Most Sachs hubs have the three nub not sure about sram versions. The shifter for a Sturmey archer will work if you modify the rod. The Sachs kickback is better in my opinion. There three speed coasters are excellent smoother changes. If you look for a Dutch bike like a gazelle your likely to find one.
 
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Yes but of course I need 36H!!!! (I saw that one on eBay in my searches)

I bought one of the S2Cs when they first came out. I put a lot of hard miles on it and eventually it started to make some funny sounds. I took it apart and replaced the bearings. It was never the same so I bought a replacement. The new one was way better than the original--even when the original was new. Quieter, shifts better, has less drag. I think maybe SA made some improvements in those first few years.

Anyway. I was thinking about buying one of those brand new 32H units on eBay, then taking the guts out and putting them in the shell from that original one I have (if I can find it). Is this viable? Or is it just a plan for trashing a brand new 32H hub?
I see this seller has a few 36 hole SA S2Cs for sale:

My machine won't tolerate the long axle, my OLD is 110 now and I prefer to not stretch that more than 6 or 7 mm. But, from the picture, I'm wondering if I couldn't remove the two spacer nuts and hack the axle down to end up with a manageable OLD?

Kind of a bummer that one won't get axle nuts, sprocket or retainer ring with their purchase. Is a dust cover also missing?
 
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The Sachs 2 speed torpedo hub will take any 3 nub sprocket Sturmey Shimano etc and you can buy custom made skip tooth sprockets as well .
I have a 20 tooth Shimano on mine I think it came with an 18 made out of heavier steel.
 

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I see this seller has a few 36 hole SA S2Cs for sale:

My machine won't tolerate the long axle, my OLD is 110 now and I prefer to not stretch that more than 6 or 7 mm. But, from the picture, I'm wondering if I couldn't remove the two spacer nuts and hack the axle down to end up with a manageable OLD?

Kind of a bummer that one won't get axle nuts, sprocket or retainer ring with their purchase. Is a dust cover also missing?
Don't think there's a dust cover but I do know thin spacers are available
 
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Yes, all Sachs and most SRAM kickback hubs take these standard sprockets, same as Shimano Nexus does. If you want i can make a custom skiptooth sprocket like that for you, but that won't be easy. The skiptooth cog is thicker then the regular one, so it would have to be thinner inside and thicker outside. Would need to be fabricated in a few steps, including laser cutting and machining on a lathe.
 
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Don't think there's a dust cover but I do know thin spacers are available
Yeah I saw this one too and I had a great idea like I would find my old unit, and use the nuts and other pieces from it on this new hub. Then I went out and looked for the old hub and I guess I pitched it. This is why my garage is so full of junk. Every time I think I can get away with throwing something away, it turns out I regret it later. As in this case.

This pic in the listing for the 32 hole hub shows all the missing pieces!


Looking at this again though....I might just do it. I think all I really need is the nuts, the anti-rotation washers, and the dust cover.
 
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An ad for some 116mm OLD, SA S2Cs has appeared on Ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304766626452
These look to be complete in the box, with axle nuts and a 22 tooth sprocket. The price is quite a bit more than they were going for when available at online bike retailers, about $110 with tax and shipping.

I considered a lot of possibilities for my Shelby Hiawatha,
- The old Bendix Aviation two speed could be had cheap, but the MS-46 axle end actuator, the cable and the bar mounted shifter were all going to cost me again what the hub did, if I could find them.
- A Bendix automatic was a known entity. I can probably find a Yellow Band for about $110, and a Red Band might be a few bucks less, but spare parts seem to be a bit scarce, especially the brake disc set for the Red. The Bendix automatics (kickback) are limited to the 18 tooth sprocket that is not interchangeable.
- I've only read good things about the Sachs Duomatic. Haven't seen one for sale with 36 holes, but when I do, I bet it will be over $200.
- A Sachs Torpedo Driegang, 3 speed is a lot easier to find, but again I see issues with the small parts. The chain & rod, the cable seem likely to be broken or missing from Ebay offerings, and the shifter will probably cost as much as the hub.
- A Sturmey Archer S3C or AWC ( I'm leery of the TCW), 3 speed would be an economical solution. These seem relatively available, and supplies of small parts are good, (provided my assumption that these use the same shifter parts as AW hubs is correct?) I could mount the shifter under the seat for a clean handlebar, if I custom terminate a shorty cable.
- A Shimano 333 coaster brake three speed is an option, but these don't have a great reputation for durability, and would be low on my list.

The Sturmey Archer S2C has interchangeable sprockets, and there will be no need for finagling shifter cables. Having been manufactured presumably within the last decade, perhaps spare parts will even be obtainable. The only thing about it I consider a negative is that it uses the gears for high, rather than low. Low is direct and High is 138%.

An S2C is on its way to me here in Chicago from the Ebay seller above.

Yes, all Sachs and most SRAM kickback hubs take these standard sprockets, same as Shimano Nexus does. If you want i can make a custom skiptooth sprocket like that for you, but that won't be easy. The skiptooth cog is thicker then the regular one, so it would have to be thinner inside and thicker outside. Would need to be fabricated in a few steps, including laser cutting and machining on a lathe.
Thanks for the info on the Sachs and SRAM sprockets. I appreciate your offer, but I don't want to get into custom made parts. I found this vendor on Ebay who is dealing in exactly what you described. https://www.ebay.com/itm/383857862062

My Shelby Hiawatha 26 x 2.125 (559) balloon tire arrived with a prewar snowflake skiptooth chainwheel with 26 teeth and a 10 tooth rear. I'll go through some gear - inch ratio calculations. This is mainly for myself, posting it here lets me find the info again. If this interests or benefits others, that's great. I'm riding in Chicago, northwest side. It's mainly flat, with an occasional hill. My commute schedule seems to mean I always have a head wind. Not sure if this is meteorological or imaginary.

For a baseline, I'll use the 3 speed lightweight I was commuting on last year. That had 26x1-3/8 (590) tires, 1/2 pitch chain, a 48 tooth chainwheel and a 19 tooth sprocket on an AW hub.

3 speed 48 / 19 SA AW 48.1 low 65.5 mid 87.3 high ( High is ocasionally useable, one tooth more in the rear might be better overall. )

I think most 3 speeds were factory equipped with 18 tooth rear sprockets. That's what was on my Sportsman before I switched to the 19.

48 / 18 SA AW 51.8 low 69.1 mid 92.1 high ( low was OK, mid was fine, but high was almost never usefull)

Existing Shelby 26 / 10 S.T. 67.4 gear inches ( Steep, but manageable, I stand on pedals for hills)
26 / 11 S.T. SA S2C 61.3 low 84.6 high
26 / 12 S.T. SA S2C 56.2 low 77.6 high

Rather than stay with the skiptooth, which is going to be a problem when I need to add links, it seems much wiser to change the Hiawatha to use 1/2" pitch chain. I'm going to get a 48 tooth sunburst chainwheel, which I believe was what was on the bike from the factory.

48 / 22 SA S2C 56.6 low 78.1 high (Worth a try, but I suspect I'll be shopping for a 24t sprocket)
48 / 24 SA S2C 51.9 low 71.6 high

If anyone is interested in learning more about "Gear Inches" as a way of calculating ratios on bikes, or any of the other methods for doing this, I recommend Sheldon Brown's site, although there appears to be a server issue at the moment: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html
 
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I can sell you a perfect condition 36h Sachs Duomatic for 160 shipped if you want. I still have a few in my stash.
Same goes for a Sachs Driegang, i live close by Germany and it is easy for me to get a perfectly functioning hub locally if you want with all the mounting gear. I can even send you an extra hub for spare parts. Depending on production year and condition the price would be 50 to 100 usd plus around 30 shipping for two hubs or slightly cheaper shipping if you don't want an extra one for parts.
 
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I can sell you a perfect condition 36h Sachs Duomatic for 160 shipped if you want. I still have a few in my stash.
Same goes for a Sachs Driegang, i live close by Germany and it is easy for me to get a perfectly functioning hub locally if you want with all the mounting gear. I can even send you an extra hub for spare parts. Depending on production year and condition the price would be 50 to 100 usd plus around 30 shipping for two hubs or slightly cheaper shipping if you don't want an extra one for parts.
Thank you for your offer. I think I would be interested in purchasing the two Sachs coaster brake hubs as you suggested.
A Duomatic 102 would be my first choice, all things being equal, but a good working, low mileage R2110 would be better than a worn out 102. I intend to ride it. Not a lot of miles, but I value reliability.
In a Dreigang, I like the ones I've seen with the scalloped hub shell, like the 515 and H3111. I can't claim to having enough knowledge or experience with these to make an very educated choice, but I've read good things and I'd like to get some personal experience. I prefer the all metal lever shifter to the plastic one. I get the impression that you are offering a complete setup, with hub, indicator rod wi. chain, shifter, and cable? That would be awesome, as tracking down odd parts can consume a lot of money and even more time, especially since I'm a newcomer to F&S hubs. A hub for spares would be welcome.
From what I've read and pictures I've seen, I'm thinking ~ '70s vintage hardware would the best for me. What is your suggestion? Thanks again for your kind offer.
 
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Thank you for your offer. I think I would be interested in purchasing the two Sachs coaster brake hubs as you suggested.
A Duomatic 102 would be my first choice, all things being equal, but a good working, low mileage R2110 would be better than a worn out 102. I intend to ride it. Not a lot of miles, but I value reliability.
In a Dreigang, I like the ones I've seen with the scalloped hub shell, like the 515 and H3111. I can't claim to having enough knowledge or experience with these to make an very educated choice, but I've read good things and I'd like to get some personal experience. I prefer the all metal lever shifter to the plastic one. I get the impression that you are offering a complete setup, with hub, indicator rod wi. chain, shifter, and cable? That would be awesome, as tracking down odd parts can consume a lot of money and even more time, especially since I'm a newcomer to F&S hubs. A hub for spares would be welcome.
From what I've read and pictures I've seen, I'm thinking ~ '70s vintage hardware would the best for me. What is your suggestion? Thanks again for your kind offer.
I actually went to my workshop and digged through the pile of hubs, and found an earlier 3 speed Torpedo in perfect condition, with the oil valve on it! I will post pictures. I offer a hub and a chain, but i don't have shifters lying around. If needed i can purchase them, no problem, i'd take a look at what's available locally. In my experience actually later plastic cable ends work better, since they are easy to adjust with the spring on them and a bolt holding the cable itself.
 
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That's the Dreigang hub i found. Shiny and nice. From what i see on this website, this should be a Torpedo B H3111 model. I can let it go for 100 USD.
IMG_7763.JPG


11 80 stamped on the hub body. This i believe is a production month and year.
IMG_7764.JPG


No "F&S" sign on the brake plate.
IMG_7765.JPG


This is the hub i was intending to send you for spare parts. From what i see on the mentioned above website, this is Torpedo S H3111 model, from roughly same period. I actually believe it is functional. I have another one of the same model that is missing a few parts but has a nice shiny shell, so if you prefer this model i can send you two of them so you can make one nice functional hub out of two.
IMG_7766.JPG


These are my Duomatic hubs. Both older and newer model, both are 36 holes.
IMG_7767.JPG

IMG_7768.JPG


Apart from my hubs i have found a source for a NOS Torpedo S H3111, same model as the black hub on the photo but factory new. That'd be roughly 160 USD shipped.
 

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