agreed. cut slicks or racing rain tires are some of my favorites
The Prowler
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Yeah, it's a nice-looking tire, don't get me wrong. I just can't believe it's somehow almost as narrow as the front. The front is a 20x1.75, the rear is a 20x2.125. They should not be this close in size. I don't get how that's possible. If it was at least 2 inches wide, like most 2.125"-wide tires I've messed with, then I'd probably be okay with it. However, the actual width is disappointing to me.
Thanks! Cardboard is arguably the best mockup material out there! It's cheap, it's sturdy yet flexible, it's easy to cut into shape, and it's recyclable!
It's an attractive tire, but yeah, I was expecting it to be at least a little bigger. I'll try getting some better photos outside with my Nikon. Maybe that will help. My phone camera isn't the best, but it's easier to shoot indoor pics with, especially at night.
Okay, this is one of the many reasons why I love this forum: you guys know your stuff!I reviewed the Duro 2.125 which is more like 1.75''. Aside from the inaccurate size, the main issue is poor quality thin rubber and absence of any anti puncture feature. The 3'' is just as bad, not worth the money IMO. The center bulging at even low PSI doesn't look proper. The 3'' is a comfortable tire but I've gotten 2 flats in under 100 milesNeeds a liner.
The narrow slick and front doesn't bug me.
Comparison of the Duro next to a 70's Carlisle 2.125. Wish a company would make a good 2'' slick. The OG tire weight is 2.5lbs. That's a lot rubber!
View attachment 178486
Yeah, when I busted out my digital calipers, the width was 1.8-something inches, which is darn close to 1.75 inches. Tire durability isn't something I typically think about, but that's good information to know! Knowing this tire's not even good for 100 miles is pretty disappointing to hear.
It's cool you can provide a visual comparison between that Duro tire, and an OG 70s tire. My only concerns would be deterioration, and price. That Duro tire, even with the obnoxiously-high shipping cost, only set me back $33.75. Whenever I see those original 70s slicks in usable condition, the prices make me feel like it'd be cheaper just to buy the whole bike.
Well, maybe I'll hold off on returning/refunding it for a little while. I'm still not happy with it though. I wouldn't expect a 3" tire to really reach its full size anyways. Most bikes I've dealt with tend to be narrower than their advertised width. And yeah, I can't say I'd really want the tire to "crown" either. Maybe if I can find a good-looking 20x2.40 rounded slick, that could work with a narrow wheel. I'll just have to figure it out.I'd run that tire
As Hamp was pointing out, you put a 3" on there and the narrow rim will squeeze it in and not allow it to reach a full 3" anyhow plus it will "crown" the tire more. Sure you might squeeze it in or even dimple the stays, but it still won't quite be right
I've been looking at those Innova 3" tires on eBay. Think you could give me the exact inflated width in decimals? That'd really help me out.
Agreed, round slicks do look modern, and modern is not the look I'm after here. Those Animal T1s look pretty good! I agree that they'd look better without that groove, but those could still work for what I need. I'll have to see if I can find any online. Thanks for your help Hamppea!
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Vintage slick are for looks. I was fortunate to get a NOS tire from the late 70's in rideable condition. It was a small fortune. I had a blast riding on it for hundreds of miles before the cords finally failed 
Round tires look more street is what I meant.... We want drag.
For the love a Pete, will someone make quality drag slicks for bicycles!
Round tires look more street is what I meant.... We want drag.
For the love a Pete, will someone make quality drag slicks for bicycles!
66mm width @35 PSI on a 37.5mm rim. 60mm height from rim edge. Widest 22mm below the top/crown.
Vintage slicks do look cool, but most bikes that I see with original slicks are usually display pieces. I want a play bike, not a display bike! Sounds like you lucked out on that one slick, but if I wanted to spend a small fortune on something, I'd probably spend it taking home another project!Vintage slick are for looks. I was fortunate to get a NOS tire from the late 70's in rideable condition. It was a small fortune. I had a blast riding on it for hundreds of miles before the cords finally failed
Round tires look more street is what I meant.... We want drag.
For the love a Pete, will someone make quality drag slicks for bicycles!
66mm width @35 PSI on a 37.5mm rim. 60mm height from rim edge. Widest 22mm below the top/crown.
Agreed, street isn't the look I'm going for, I want drag.
I wish there was a vintage bicycle aftermarket at least half as good as the automotive aftermarket. We need a "Coker Tires" for bikes!
Awesome, thanks!
MattiThundrrr
Rattus All Terrainus
That's excellent right there. I need to keep that in focus.
I know you've seen the video where the guy turns a knobby mtb tire into a slick with a belt sander...
Carl
No, I actually haven't seen that video. You did remind me of a video I have seen, however:
What video are you referring to?
It's been some years since I seen it. I'll go digging though it's probably in the archives here...
Carl.
Carl.
Took some time to shoot some better pics of the Murray with my Nikon today, so I can hopefully better show the issues I'm struggling with.
From the side view, the two tires don't look noticeably different... and that's an issue for me. While I'm not used to working with 20 inch bikes and tires, based on my experience with 26" bikes, there should be a significant difference between a 1.75-inch-wide tire and a 2.125-inch-wide tire, regardless of wheel size. The fact that my front and rear tires look almost the same size doesn't sit well with me. One of the 2 out of 3 requirements for a MBBO bike is "big and little tires." The fact that it almost looks like I put 2 of the same size tire on the front and rear doesn't work for me.
I know some of you have said that slick is not that bad of a tire, and I admit, it's got a good look. That said, I can't stand how I have all this room between the seat and chain stays, and the slick doesn't take advantage of it. Maybe it's just the way the frame is shaped, but I figure that with as much room as there is out back, there should be a tire back there that fills in that space. I'm calling that a middleweight tire. It's too skinny to be a balloon tire.
But wait, there's more! Despite how much room the frame provides, the chain actually sits closer to the tire than the chain stays. Not by much... but enough that I couldn't get away with squeezing a 20x3.0 Innova slick in the back.
Another issue I hadn't really factored into my original design: the Schwinn mag sprocket I want to use would nudge the chain even closer to the rear tire. The original Murray chainring is convex, while the Schwinn mag chainring is concave. So that's one more issue that limits my options on finding a better rear tire.
I mocked up the tank and chain guard again to see if that might change my mind on that rear tire. It didn't. Plus, here's another issue that matters to me: Right now, with the tires that are on this bike, and those poorly-designed springer fork rockers, the chain stays on this bike sit almost perfectly level, which is what I want... sort of. I want that part of the frame to be completely parallel to the ground, but only after I replace the rockers with ones that will push the front wheel down and forward just enough for the spokes to clear the rocker bolts. If it's level now, then it won't be when/if I modify those rockers. In order for that plan to work, the back tire needs to be substantially bigger than the front tire. With the way it is right now, I won't be able to achieve the stance I want this bike to have.
Just to show I'm not merely eyeballing the differences in tire sizes, here is what my digital readout calipers said the dimensions are (in inches.) First up, the approximate width of that slick tire, which shows about 1.863 inches, or about 47.3mm.
Next: drag slick sidewall height, from rim to the peak of the tread. Roughly 1.5 inches, or 38mm.
Next, the width of the front tire. 1.637 inches, or 41.5mm.
Front tire sidewall height: 1.333 inches, or 33.85mm.
Next, the dimensions of the frame. First, the narrowest point of the seat stays, right behind the rear fender brace/mount: 2.755 inches, or almost 70mm.
Next, the narrowest spot of the chain stays, right next to the fender brace/mount: 1.792 inches, or 45.5mm.
Next, the width right on the edge of the tire tread: 2.563 inches, or 65mm.
So yeah. That's where I'm at right now. I've got a bent springer fork, an underwhelming drag slick, clearance issues for bigger tires, and a nagging fear that I won't be able to build this bike the way I originally wanted. I may need to come up with a backup plan in the event I can't achieve the exact look I want. I want this bike to feel period-correct, even if it's not, but the limited variety of vintage-looking slicks, coupled with the tire clearance issue I mentioned, might mean I'll have to go for a more "retro-modern" look. I'll try sketching some other ideas while I figure this out. I'll also look at the tires everyone suggested earlier to see if any will fit the look I'm after. Hopefully I'll come up with a solution. At least these issues are just springing up in the first few weeks of the MBBO, instead of the last few weeks like they normally do.
From the side view, the two tires don't look noticeably different... and that's an issue for me. While I'm not used to working with 20 inch bikes and tires, based on my experience with 26" bikes, there should be a significant difference between a 1.75-inch-wide tire and a 2.125-inch-wide tire, regardless of wheel size. The fact that my front and rear tires look almost the same size doesn't sit well with me. One of the 2 out of 3 requirements for a MBBO bike is "big and little tires." The fact that it almost looks like I put 2 of the same size tire on the front and rear doesn't work for me.
I know some of you have said that slick is not that bad of a tire, and I admit, it's got a good look. That said, I can't stand how I have all this room between the seat and chain stays, and the slick doesn't take advantage of it. Maybe it's just the way the frame is shaped, but I figure that with as much room as there is out back, there should be a tire back there that fills in that space. I'm calling that a middleweight tire. It's too skinny to be a balloon tire.
But wait, there's more! Despite how much room the frame provides, the chain actually sits closer to the tire than the chain stays. Not by much... but enough that I couldn't get away with squeezing a 20x3.0 Innova slick in the back.
Another issue I hadn't really factored into my original design: the Schwinn mag sprocket I want to use would nudge the chain even closer to the rear tire. The original Murray chainring is convex, while the Schwinn mag chainring is concave. So that's one more issue that limits my options on finding a better rear tire.
I mocked up the tank and chain guard again to see if that might change my mind on that rear tire. It didn't. Plus, here's another issue that matters to me: Right now, with the tires that are on this bike, and those poorly-designed springer fork rockers, the chain stays on this bike sit almost perfectly level, which is what I want... sort of. I want that part of the frame to be completely parallel to the ground, but only after I replace the rockers with ones that will push the front wheel down and forward just enough for the spokes to clear the rocker bolts. If it's level now, then it won't be when/if I modify those rockers. In order for that plan to work, the back tire needs to be substantially bigger than the front tire. With the way it is right now, I won't be able to achieve the stance I want this bike to have.
Just to show I'm not merely eyeballing the differences in tire sizes, here is what my digital readout calipers said the dimensions are (in inches.) First up, the approximate width of that slick tire, which shows about 1.863 inches, or about 47.3mm.
Next: drag slick sidewall height, from rim to the peak of the tread. Roughly 1.5 inches, or 38mm.
Next, the width of the front tire. 1.637 inches, or 41.5mm.
Front tire sidewall height: 1.333 inches, or 33.85mm.
Next, the dimensions of the frame. First, the narrowest point of the seat stays, right behind the rear fender brace/mount: 2.755 inches, or almost 70mm.
Next, the narrowest spot of the chain stays, right next to the fender brace/mount: 1.792 inches, or 45.5mm.
Next, the width right on the edge of the tire tread: 2.563 inches, or 65mm.
So yeah. That's where I'm at right now. I've got a bent springer fork, an underwhelming drag slick, clearance issues for bigger tires, and a nagging fear that I won't be able to build this bike the way I originally wanted. I may need to come up with a backup plan in the event I can't achieve the exact look I want. I want this bike to feel period-correct, even if it's not, but the limited variety of vintage-looking slicks, coupled with the tire clearance issue I mentioned, might mean I'll have to go for a more "retro-modern" look. I'll try sketching some other ideas while I figure this out. I'll also look at the tires everyone suggested earlier to see if any will fit the look I'm after. Hopefully I'll come up with a solution. At least these issues are just springing up in the first few weeks of the MBBO, instead of the last few weeks like they normally do.
As a matter of interest, how much work do you think it would take to get a 24" wheel in the back?
As to the forks, with a bit of heat and someone who knows what they are doing, it should not be difficult to straighten it - ad any slight imperfections will be concealed by the spring.
The good news is that it is still only November, and I have only got as far as making a set of dropout extenders...
As to the forks, with a bit of heat and someone who knows what they are doing, it should not be difficult to straighten it - ad any slight imperfections will be concealed by the spring.
The good news is that it is still only November, and I have only got as far as making a set of dropout extenders...
I'd have to get some drop out extenders fabricated to fit a 24" back there. I could just mount them using the existing dropouts and the bolt holes for the sissy bar. The issue with putting a 24" wheel in the back on this frame is that unless I design the dropout extender to push the axle up at least an inch or so from where it was before, it'll change the rake of the frame. I like the rake as it is, so I really don't want to change it if I can help it. I really wanted this to be a strictly 20 inch build, but the idea of a 24/20 Murray with this wild rake, and the front wheel kicked down while the rear wheel is kicked up, sounds like an idea worth exploring. I just might tinker with that later, but first I need to get the right-side dropout straightened so I can go from there.
I'm sure my friend Allan can fix it, but I'll have to check with him and see. I should be meeting with him soon to finish assembling another bike of mine, so I can talk with him about fixing the fork in addition to the rest of what we plan to do to this bike.
Agreed. Usually the worst problems wait until the last minute to present themselves to me during these build offs, so as frustrating as it is to have all these problems early on, it's also a relief since I have that much more time to solve them. Hey, any step forward, however small, is a step in the right direction! That fork setup you have in mind is going to be a sight to see once it's put together! It's almost like a beefier Monark springer fork the way you have it mocked up!
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The result may not be quite as pronounced as you were expecting, but I certainly see the difference between front and back. Naturally, a wider tire also equates to a taller tire, since the profile expands in every direction. Despite any shortcomings, I find your mock-up to be very appealing just the way it is.
Thanks Rusty. I'll admit, it's not bad like it is, but I have a vision for this bike, and I don't want to settle for "not bad." I was hoping the tire would not only be wider, but also taller, to compensate for the modified rockers I have in mind for the springer fork. Fortunately, I think I found a tire I like in a size I want. Best of all, I think it's helped me decide on the name for the bike!
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Are you calling the project "Tired of Compromises?"
"Tired of Compromises/No Compromise" would actually be a killer name for a bike, but no, I've got a different name in mind. I'll wait to confirm it until this new tire I just ordered arrives.
I did that around 1997 to make a set of fast tires to ride Slickrock in Moab. They were stupid fast and grippy on that sandstone.
Ok, I don't have any photos of the small bit of progress my friend Allan and I made on the Murray, but he helped me loosen the cone nut that held the Schwinn mag sprocket tight on the crank, and he straightened the best-looking sissy bar I have in my collection, so I may be using that on this bike.
Today, we mostly worked on my RRBBO16 entry, The Schwinn Dixie Dreamcycle. We actually got the bike fully assembled and even riding! All that was missing was the tank, because it's not finished being painted, and the pedals, because I accidentally left them at home.
So, how does this Schwinn relate to the Murray? Well, after the first test ride, I took it for another spin around the airport... and in less than a minute, all heck literally broke loose. The fork steerer tube snapped right around where we had repaired it months ago, causing the front wheel to jump ahead of the frame, and causing me to scrape my hands, knees and elbow against the tarmac.
The crash didn't damage the bike too bad. Aside from the fork, most of the damage was cosmetic. I'll want to get a new fork, sandblast and powder coat most of the parts again, and maybe replace the seat and handlebar grips. I, on the other hand, got banged up worse than I've experienced in a long while. I didn't break anything thankfully, but I'm really sore, especially in the entire length of my right arm.
Left hand got a blister and some road rash, and I'm a bit sore at the wrist too. Thankfully, it's not too bad.
On the other hand, my right hand got scraped really bad on 3 of my fingers, and my wrist, elbow, and even shoulder are all sore and stiff. This is particularly bad, as I write, draw, turn wrenches, and do pretty much everything with that arm/hand. I hate to say it, but because of what happened today, I'm going to need to take a break from working on bikes while I let this heal up.
While it's painful enough to have been injured like this, it's even more painful knowing that my bike was this close >< to being done, only for it to break before I could really enjoy it. And I wasn't the only one who was seriously bummed out about it. My friend Allan, who helped me fix this bike and helped me put it together was so stoked to see this bike come together, and equally disheartened to see it break in two. Mom and Dad were pretty shocked to hear what happened too. Despite the emotional crush this crash dumped on us, none of us want to give up on this bike. My family wants to see this bike completed, my friend Allan wants to see this bike completed, and I want to see this bike completed. So, whenever I'm in better shape, I'm going to fix up this bike again, probably after I finish my MBBO entry, if I can get back to work on that bike soon.
Until then, my plan from this point on is to let my body heal, and to keep an eye on everyone else's progress on their MBBO entries.
Today, we mostly worked on my RRBBO16 entry, The Schwinn Dixie Dreamcycle. We actually got the bike fully assembled and even riding! All that was missing was the tank, because it's not finished being painted, and the pedals, because I accidentally left them at home.
So, how does this Schwinn relate to the Murray? Well, after the first test ride, I took it for another spin around the airport... and in less than a minute, all heck literally broke loose. The fork steerer tube snapped right around where we had repaired it months ago, causing the front wheel to jump ahead of the frame, and causing me to scrape my hands, knees and elbow against the tarmac.
The crash didn't damage the bike too bad. Aside from the fork, most of the damage was cosmetic. I'll want to get a new fork, sandblast and powder coat most of the parts again, and maybe replace the seat and handlebar grips. I, on the other hand, got banged up worse than I've experienced in a long while. I didn't break anything thankfully, but I'm really sore, especially in the entire length of my right arm.
Left hand got a blister and some road rash, and I'm a bit sore at the wrist too. Thankfully, it's not too bad.
On the other hand, my right hand got scraped really bad on 3 of my fingers, and my wrist, elbow, and even shoulder are all sore and stiff. This is particularly bad, as I write, draw, turn wrenches, and do pretty much everything with that arm/hand. I hate to say it, but because of what happened today, I'm going to need to take a break from working on bikes while I let this heal up.
While it's painful enough to have been injured like this, it's even more painful knowing that my bike was this close >< to being done, only for it to break before I could really enjoy it. And I wasn't the only one who was seriously bummed out about it. My friend Allan, who helped me fix this bike and helped me put it together was so stoked to see this bike come together, and equally disheartened to see it break in two. Mom and Dad were pretty shocked to hear what happened too. Despite the emotional crush this crash dumped on us, none of us want to give up on this bike. My family wants to see this bike completed, my friend Allan wants to see this bike completed, and I want to see this bike completed. So, whenever I'm in better shape, I'm going to fix up this bike again, probably after I finish my MBBO entry, if I can get back to work on that bike soon.
Until then, my plan from this point on is to let my body heal, and to keep an eye on everyone else's progress on their MBBO entries.
MattiThundrrr
Rattus All Terrainus
Wow, bud that is pretty intense! Can't imagine what it would feel like to have a bike break in two underneath you. Glad it wasn't worse. Good luck with recovery, hopefully it's quick enough to keep you in the game
That's why I don't trust forks that have been repaired or bent. That part of a bike takes more stress than any other part of the bike, right at the crown.
Perfect time to get a springer.
Perfect time to get a springer.
It happened so fast, I didn't even have time to comprehend what happened until I was already on the tarmac. Thanks Matti, I appreciate it.
