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That guy is the the worlds toughest welder! Ive seen no apron before and I sometime wear no gloves but no glass's or helmet! wow I never seen that! LOL. they breed em pretty tough over there bro!
 
Here's a trick that I came up with several years ago for making an OA bathtub for frames. Some people use kiddie pools but that would take a LOT of water! The bike frame has a very small surface area compared to the overall shape. So to help minimize the amount of water required to submerge the entire frame, I first lay out a parameter and use whatever is on hand to fill in voids.

First I do a dry run to check everything. The box needs to be at least an inch or two taller than the frame. Also. because this frame is narrow at the head tube and wide at the rear, I placed the box on a sloped area of ground to save a little more water. The shallow end of the pool gets the narrow headtube end of the bike. I also check to see if the frame will fit the pool laying on either side so that I can flip it from time to time.
View attachment 247206
I actually filled in more of the spaces around the edges after this photo.

After the test fit, I covered all sharp edges with towels and laid some plastic sheeting into the space. The water will push out most of the voids as it fills up. The overall size of the plastic needs to be about two to three times as wide as it is deep around the edge so that it doesn't pull over into the pool from the weight of the water.
View attachment 247207

The space in front of the seat tube could have been blocked out to save more water but I left it open for other parts after the frame was done.

View attachment 247208

In the end, it took around 9 gallons of water.
 
Reposted @The Renaissance Man 's how-to with the pictures in place:
"Here's a trick that I came up with several years ago for making an OA bathtub for frames. Some people use kiddie pools but that would take a LOT of water! The bike frame has a very small surface area compared to the overall shape. So to help minimize the amount of water required to submerge the entire frame, I first lay out a parameter and use whatever is on hand to fill in voids.

First I do a dry run to check everything. The box needs to be at least an inch or two taller than the frame. Also. because this frame is narrow at the head tube and wide at the rear, I placed the box on a sloped area of ground to save a little more water. The shallow end of the pool gets the narrow headtube end of the bike. I also check to see if the frame will fit the pool laying on either side so that I can flip it from time to time.
100_8052.JPG

I actually filled in more of the spaces around the edges after this photo.

After the test fit, I covered all sharp edges with towels and laid some plastic sheeting into the space. The water will push out most of the voids as it fills up. The overall size of the plastic needs to be about two to three times as wide as it is deep around the edge so that it doesn't pull over into the pool from the weight of the water.
100_8054.JPG

The space in front of the seat tube could have been blocked out to save more water but I left it open for other parts after the frame was done.
100_8056.JPG

In the end, it took around 9 gallons of water."

Thanks, @SwissGuy
 
Reposted @The Renaissance Man 's how-to with the pictures in place:
"Here's a trick that I came up with several years ago for making an OA bathtub for frames. Some people use kiddie pools but that would take a LOT of water! The bike frame has a very small surface area compared to the overall shape. So to help minimize the amount of water required to submerge the entire frame, I first lay out a parameter and use whatever is on hand to fill in voids.

First I do a dry run to check everything. The box needs to be at least an inch or two taller than the frame. Also. because this frame is narrow at the head tube and wide at the rear, I placed the box on a sloped area of ground to save a little more water. The shallow end of the pool gets the narrow headtube end of the bike. I also check to see if the frame will fit the pool laying on either side so that I can flip it from time to time.
View attachment 247371
I actually filled in more of the spaces around the edges after this photo.

After the test fit, I covered all sharp edges with towels and laid some plastic sheeting into the space. The water will push out most of the voids as it fills up. The overall size of the plastic needs to be about two to three times as wide as it is deep around the edge so that it doesn't pull over into the pool from the weight of the water.View attachment 247370
The space in front of the seat tube could have been blocked out to save more water but I left it open for other parts after the frame was done.
View attachment 247369
In the end, it took around 9 gallons of water."

Thanks, @SwissGuy
Thank YOU! 👍
Thought about doing like this, but was in a hurry... 😁😉
 
More OA wisdom from OG TRM
I put one tablespoon per gallon. .
"It's also vital to get the water as hot as possible for the best suspension. I heat mine till it starts to boil (one gallon at a time) on the stove. And then take it outside to pour it into a plastic bucket for mixing with the OA before pouring it into the pool.

As it cools the OA starts settling on the parts and is difficult to remove from painted surfaces. Chrome parts can stand up to more aggressive scrubbing so I do them last if I'm using the same solution for multiple parts.

The water was still around 100 degrees toward the end of the day and starting to get a lot of junk mixed with it when I put the last round in. These parts stayed in overnight and it still did a good job. Notice that I lifted the plastic and removed the cinder block spacer so that I would have room for the wheels.

247552-100-8057.jpeg

I didn't think to get a morning-after shot but the water was completely clear and all of the solids had settled on the parts and on the bottom of the pool. I used a soft scrub pad to clean them with clean rinse water mixed with baking soda."
 
I didn't intend to make a tutorial on Oxalic-I thought it would be useful to summarize all of the process that I can think of.
First though is a disclaimer: I'm in no way an expert on any of this so proceed at your own risk!



Here's what I've learned from others and from my own experience.




1) Disassemble your parts and clean them thoroughly before everything else.



2) Make a plan for what parts are to be done and in what order. I chose the most fragile painted parts first to give them the best shot.




3) Build a container around your parts while minimizing the amount of water needed. (See previous post above) Place it in direct sunlight if possible to help maintain the heat as much as possible.


4) Before starting the OA mix, have everything ready such as rubber gloves, safety glasses, plastic bucket, scrub pads (I used the white non-scratch pads), old toothbrush, etc.

5) Heat the water to the boiling point if possible, transfer it to a plastic bucket, and add 1 tablespoon of OA powder to one gallon of water. Pour the solution into your pool. Pouring from the bucket to the pool is sufficient for mixing.

6) Once the pool is full and the parts start soaking, help it along by taking the piece out after 30 minutes or so and scrub it lightly with a scrub pad and clean water to remove loose scale. Rinse and repeat until you're happy with it. This is more important on paint than chrome to make sure it doesn't stay too long and remove the paint. Taking parts out to clean and rinse keeps the solution cleaner and more effective.

7) After removing the part for the last time rinse and flush thoroughly. (I actually took my frame in the house and submerged it in our bathtub with cool water and baking soda to neutralize any AO left on the inside of the frame.) Dry everything and blow out the inside of frame tubes with compressed air if you can. Then spray WD-40 liberally inside of the frame tilting and rotating to cover as much of the tubes as possible to prevent flash rust. Lastly, spray and wipe WD-40 on the outside.


8) Place any other parts in the bath as soon as any space opens up. Add more hot water and AO as needed.



9) Chrome parts that are easy to scrub clean like chain rings, cranks, handlebars, etc. can be left unattended for longer without as much concern about the 'yellow film' that will collect with time.

10) Emptying the water out into the ground is not harmful from what I understand. However, if you are concerned about it, dump some baking soda into the solution first to neutralize it.
 
Has anybody not considered these for their toolbox?

View attachment 181409
Designed for barbed-wire fencing, they are actually very handy for scroungers like us. I use them all the time when raiding the scrap bin--the side cutters are perfect for snipping through old spokes. Save the fancy tools for repair work....these are my wrecking ball!
I have to comment on these. Non bike related but these are the cats meow. I do cabinetry for a living and this is the handiest tool in my toolbox. You can pull plastic feet we use for transport, knock staples in pull staples out with the point, pull 18 gauge nails due to the ends not completely touching and best of all cut dang metric hardware screws with the cutters one the side. Nice clean cut and don't bugger threads up.
 
Not my detail

Copy/paste from outside source







OA bath

Expectations
You can expect clean parts if you do the bath correctly. It takes a good amount of time to complete a bath. At the solution strength I use, it usually takes over 24 hours. If you want to sit and watch it, you need to have a plenty of beer. I think this would be slightly more interesting than watching you wife's "how to scrap book" video. All of the after photos you will see are of parts that had no polishing done to them. I only rinsed them off and dried them with a soft white t-shirt. After you use the OA bath, you will need to put your parts in a controlled environment. If they remain in a harsh environment, the rust will return.
How do I handle/treat Oxalic Acid?
Like you would with any other chemical or cleaner: carefully and with caution. Do not ingest or inhale the OA crystals. Wear gloves to prevent skin irritation. Use it in small amounts. Always replace and make sure the lid is secure on the OA crystal container. Do not splash the OA solution after you mix it. The strength at which the solution will be used is going to be weak. Much weaker than a liquid deck cleaner. However, still use it carefully. I would also make sure that kids or small animals can't get around it. When finished, I pour it in the yard and run water over it. I think it actually helps the grass. It sure doesn't harm it.
I have read the MSDS on Oxalic Acid crystals. Although Oxalic Acid is a natural occurring substance that is found in many vegetables, in crystal form, it is much stronger. Remember, we are disolving a small amount of OA crystals into much higher volume of water. This makes a highly diluted liquid. As I stated above, always use caution when handling it.

What kind of parts can I put in an Oxalic Acid bath?"
Steel or Chromoly. I only use OA on chromed steel parts. I would not use it on Aluminum or Black Oxide parts. It will jack up black oxide parts, because it is trying to remove the oxide finish. Here are some seat guts I did to show how they will turn out. So, if you have a chromed 4130 or chromed hi-ten steel bike, you have the perfect candidate for an OA bath. You can use OA on bare steel but it will flash rust. The parts I am using for this OA bath is a set of Robinson forks, handle bars, a rusty stainless (it is stainless, not stainfree) chain and a set of Profile Cranks. I need to thank 71bike for letting me soak the forks after he paid for them. He was more than gracious and actually encouraged it. I'm not sure how many people would do that.


Since you have the parts that need to be cleaned, you now need to go get some supplies.
Supplies
1. Plastic Container- This is the main item you are going to need and it needs to be ideal.
I now use a plastic 55 gal storage container container that comes with a lid. It works fantastic. The lid keeps pets and kids out of the bath. I believe I purchased mine at Lowes for around $28. It is much bigger than the clothes storage container and easier to use. I can put a frame, bars, forks, and other chrome components in it. If you are trying to do a couple of small parts, of course a smaller container can be used.
2. Scotch Brite pads (NON-SCRATCH type)- Since you are at the store, go ahead and go get some non scratch scotch brite pads. If they have the white ones, these are even better. Do not use the maroon or normal green ones. They will scratch the surface.
3. Rubber Gloves- You don't want your hands to smell like OA. It could also be a skin irritant to some.
4. Old tooth brush(s). You will need these to get into small cracks. If you don't have an old one, then buy yourself a new one. Take your old one into the garage.
5. Oxalic Acid- I like using OA crystals. The crystal form is more economical than liquid deck cleaner or a prepared liquid solution. I purchased these two containers from a Sherwin-Williams paint store. As the container says, they call it "wood bleach". I believe I paid around $8.00 per container, but that was over a year ago. I'm not sure what the current market is for Oxylic Acid.
6. Rust Inhibitor- after an OA bath, you will need to coat the inside of the frame, forks, bars, and parts with a rust inhibitor. I like using LPS 3. You can find it online or at your local industrial supply store like Grainger.


So, you have your rusty bike taken apart and you have your supplies that your wife keeps asking, "What are you going to do with that stuff?" You tell her, "I'm going to go work some magic."
Prepping
To make sure your magic works well, you need to remove the dirt & grease from the parts. I like using Simple Green. It doesn't react to the OA. Of course, I thoroughly rinse off all the parts after I clean them. Does it seem weird to clean rusty parts? Maybe. But we are trying to remove 20 years of rust with an OA bath, not 20 years of rust, dirt, and grease combined. I would stay away from any cleaners that use bleach or other chemicals because the warning on the OA container says to stay away from them. As far as decals, I don't do anything to them. I just leave them alone. The OA bath will not harm them. I have never had an issue with factory decals. However, I have never done an OA bath with any custom made decals. I have no idea if an OA bath would harm them.
The OA Bath
Put all the parts you want to soak into the container. Now, fill the container with water. With my container, I can't fill it all the way up because there are small holes where the lid clasps are inserted. Look out for things like that. After you have the right amount of water in the container, it is time to add the OA crystals. I usually do the OA baths in my garage. When I add the crystals, I usually have the door closed and the fan turned off. I don't want anything blowing into my face. I usually like making the solution weak at first. It is always easier to add OA later that is what I did in this case. After I add the crystals, I usually put the lid on the plastic container. I then turn on the floor fan so it is blowing towards the garage door, and raise the garage door about 6 inches- a true 6 inches.


Mixing the solution
While wearing my rubber gloves, I open the OA container. For an effective bath, I usually add about three heaping tea spoons (or a table spoon) of the OA crystals. I use my gloved hand to gently mix the solution.
After making the solution, I usually wait six hours. If I don't see any reaction in six hours, I add a tea spoon. The reaction to be looking for is the formation of a yellow looking substance. After 12 hours, if you still aren't seeing the yellow substance forming, add two tea spoons. The solution will be strong enough if the solution has a slight sulfur smell to it. If you don't know what sulfur smells like, then think about a weak rotten egg smell. Instead of just waiting for the yellow substance to form, you could gently wipe the parts with the scotch brite pad. If you are able to wipe away some of the rust before there was the yellow substance formed, there is no issue with that.


Checking the parts
As I just stated, what you are looking for is the formation of the yellow substance on the part. When you see this, just gently wipe it off. I do this with the part still in the bath. If you see this substance, DO NOT LEAVE IT ON THE PART! Wipe it off! If you allow the yellow substance to stay on the part and turn a reddish-brown color, you will have a hell of a time removing it. This is why I mix my solutions weak and strengthen them as time goes by. The weaker the solution, the slower the yellow substance forms. Remember, this is not a race. Get in your head that this will take a long time. There is a payoff for your patience. Areas you want to check are areas that the chrome plating will be the thinnest. This is usually at bends, welds, and tight spots, like the chain and seat stays. I usually use the old nylon tooth brush to address these areas. Also look inside the bar-ends, seat post tube, and fork steering tube. All of these areas should have the yellow substance inside of them. I usually just roll up the end of the scotch brite pad, shove it down into the part, and turn it around. As you start to see the rust removed, keep the parts soaking.
When to stop
After about a day, you should see a vast improvement. If you don't see a lot of rust removed, then you need to strengthen your solution. When the parts look free of rust, I usually let them soak four more hours. This is to make sure that all of the rust has been removed. If after four hours, I still do not see the formation of a yellow substance, I take the parts out of the bath.
Finishing the parts
Take your parts and rinse the surface and inside of the tubes with tap water. After you rinse the parts, you can hang them so the water drips out or use an air compressor. On frames, because of the different angles of the tubes, I usually put the frame on the bike stand and use my air nozzle to blow air into the weep holes. I have found it isn't exactly necessary with handle bars and forks and other small parts. I usually position them so the water just drips out. When I put the LPS 3 in, I usually start with the weep hole higher than the rest of the part so gravity can do the work. This will displace any water that is in the tubes. So, after you rinse the insides with water, spray the insides of your parts with rust inhibitor. If you are going to get your parts powdered, you may want to talk to your painter about this. He will have to burn it out to make sure it doesn't come out of the part when the paint is being baked. My painter had to do this. If it is going to be sometime before the paint, you may want to go ahead and spray the rust inhibitor into it, but tell your painter about it. To spray it into the parts, attach the nozzle tube to the spray can, insert the tube into a weep hole, and spray. Then slowly rotate the part to make sure the entire inside gets coated. If any LPS 3 gets on the chrome surface, wipe it off. Do not allow it to dry on there. You will have some time to do this, it doesn't dry immediately. (In one of the after pictures, you can actually see some that dripped down the right fork blade. It just wiped off with no issues.)
After the LPS 3 gets sprayed inside, wipe off your part with a soft cloth. Then take it into the sunlight or a bright light and admire your work. If you want to take it to your wife and show her your "magic" , feel free to do so.

Thanks for reading this far. I hope it has been useful.
 
Tag team of MetalChewy and Crash bringing you some caliper brake setup tips
Hand brake is a no go.
"That 2.4 back tire won't clear the springs on the brake."
250881-20231018-124915.jpg

You can rebuild the brake so the center mount slot is on top, not on the bottom. .
"This one is set to the bottom.
250883-1697661105767.png

"Just take it apart, flip over the center bolt, put it back together, and you should be good. Those springs have hooks on the end, so the length shouldn't matter"
 
That is awesome, love seeing the team come together... you guys know that technically, you are competing against each other, right?
To be honest, I was confused about the original setup, I had never seen a spring sitting so low in the caliper. I downloaded diagrams and everything, but Crash saved the day. Very pleased this got resolved. Here's a useless diagram
RD-FiY-77--p436b1.jpg
 
That is awesome, love seeing the team come together... you guys know that technically, you are competing against each other, right?
To be honest, I was confused about the original setup, I had never seen a spring sitting so low in the caliper. I downloaded diagrams and everything, but Crash saved the day. Very pleased this got resolved. Here's a useless diagram View attachment 250765
That caliper came off a 60 year old roadie a few years ago and went into a parts drawer. Could be any number of reasons the spring was flipped. Maybe they wanted a lighter pull pressure on the brake at the handlebars ...
 
Frame paint stripping. As found
IMG_4235.jpeg

Jet sled, buckets or whatnot of water used to take up space. A gallon of Ph down (phosphoric acid) used with enough water to cover the frame with the ballast in place. A tandem frame fits in the larger size jet sled. You can do quite a few frames in this solution.
IMG_4238.jpeg

After several weeks the rust is gone, even into the deepest pits and the old type of paint is rotten and is easy to remove.
IMG_4239.jpeg

IMG_4240.jpeg

Then brush with a cup brush and 10,000 rpm grinder. This gets everything off except the places where the wire brush can’t reach. It’s incredibly easy and fast as the paint turns to powder from the phosphoric acid.
IMG_4241.jpeg

Then sandblast with a homemade total loss blaster. I use beach sand. You can also buy a similar blaster from Harbor Freight for $28. These small hand held blasters won’t strip an entire frame, they are only good for tight small areas. It takes awhile for the blaster to get in and strip these small tight areas.
IMG_4243.jpeg

Rub generous amounts of Ospho into the bare steel to keep the bare frame from rusting. This keeps it from rusting for a few weeks, allowing primer and paint before it rusts. It takes 24 hours for the Ospho to pickle the frame. I put it behind the wood stove for 24 hours when it’s cold.
IMG_4244.jpeg

Finished frame.
IMG_4245.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Product information:
51w1Y1aQulL._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg

"OSPHO is a balanced formula of phosphoric, dichromate, wetting agents and extenders. OSPHO is a primer-NOT A PAINT. You do not have to remove all rust. Merely remove loose paint and rust scale, dirt, oil, grease and other accumulation with a wire brush - apply a coat of OSPHO as it comes in the container - let dry overnight, then apply the paint."
 

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