What do you really think about another Breezer 1 clone build

[us56456712]

I have quite a bit of the parts to build another Breezer one clone (B 72 seat, Union pedals, Araya rims, bars, shifters, derailleurs, grips, brakes and vintage motorcycle levers). The frame and fork will cost at least $500 for me to to build. Looking at careful purchase and using the parts I have I figure I could break even selling a complete bike for $4000. That doesn’t include hundreds of hours of labor. I have pedals, but I would have to retread the French threads, which I have the stuff to do. I would have to build wheels, assuming I can find appropriate hubs. These are just some examples of the kind of stuff you have to do. The bike would be close to original, seat, crank, brakes, tires, gearing, etc. Try and find vintage style aftermarket hubs that aren’t for disk brakes, or for that matter, thread on cassettes. What do you think, is it possible to sell one? Check out parts for yourself. I’m thinking $6000. If you have this kind of bread you are better off building one for yourself. Anyway, I think I’ll make another, perhaps my children can sell it when I’m dead. I know what’s involved from my first one. My son really likes the first one I built but he thinks I should just have a frame built by a professional frame maker he knows and put my parts on it. That would be costly.

 

[MattiThundrrr]

You really came up with something nice on that first one. Love that bike.

 

[us56456712]

You really came up with something nice on that first one. Love that bike.

Yeah, but is it even possible to break even if I build another? I‘m thinking no one will purchase one at the cost required. What is your feeling? I’m looking for vintage hubs, scarce and expensive. It will be cheaper to buy a bike and strip the parts. It will be very expensive to build another even being frugal. Maybe I could sell a frame and fork for $600. I’m not sure that price is even possible given the current prices. No more $40 Mixtes out there. More like $400. 3/8 chrome moly tubing for the laterals, if I can’t find a Mixte, will cost me about $100 delivered.

 

[MattiThundrrr]

I don't know of anyone who would pay what it costs you to make it. Pretty steep price for a tribute piece. Like you've said, it's a small group that even recognize what you are replicating, let alone believe the value

 

[us56456712]

I started building another clone frame today. I’m working on the laterals. It will take years, especially since parts are so dear. I have most stuff to make another, what I don’t have will be costly or will take a lot of time. I’m trying to make laterals from seat stays as a mixte is too expensive and tubing prices are ridiculous, like $150 for chrome Molly tubing. I don’t know if I can braze 3 stays together to make a piece long enough.

 

[Ronn’s Cool Stuff]

You do it for the love love of the art, not the $
just kidding!
Breaking even is as good as it gets with an occasional HR.
material costs are nuts but it’s better than doing nothing.
Idle hands are the devils workshop!
your already dreaming about it!

 

[wheelbender6]

Its very desirable, but that is a lot of money for a bicycle.
Maybe it would be better to build a klunker with all period correct parts, but not build a replica of a specific bicycle.

 

[Palepainter]

Would love to see progress as I have An 83 Schwinn sidewinder frame set that I plan on doing the same.

 

[us56456712]

Would love to see progress as I have An 83 Schwinn sidewinder frame set that I plan on doing the same.

That’s great news, I love That. I originally thought about using a bicycle like the sidewinder as they used to be inexpensive and had almost all the parts you need. What turned me off to them was the forward facing drops and the one piece crank. I have converted forward facing drops to track drops but my experiments with replacing the one piece BB with a three piece one were unsuccessful. The problem I’m facing now is that there are no inexpensive old Huffy mixte frames right now. These frames are ideal as lateral donors because they are brazed without lugs. I cut them off at the head tube so they were still connected together, round filed the joint to meet the angle on the new frame and tacked them in place. This makes centering them on the head tube and level with the frame easy. Right now I’m furnace brazing 3 cut off chromemolly seat stays together to make each laterals as I can’t find the tubing locally and it’s over $100 to get them by mail order and they aren’t long enough anyway.

The inside of the tubes were threaded, a very short piece of a cut off bolt used to thread the tubing sections together, clamped in angle iron to make sure they stayed straight while holes were drilled into the joint for plug welding. Then the joint filled with furnace brazing in my smoker with air blown on it to make a hot spot with my propane torch exhaust. I’ll use my shop vac exhaust in the future.

Its going to be hard to attach these.

Here is the frame you want for the laterals. Mine was green. It’s on eBay but they want $164. Once the laterals are cut from the frame keep as many of the original cross braces in place and tack it in place at the head tube and drops. You probably won’t need to spread your drops as I did. I cut the original cross braces off before spreading and then fabricated cross braces that looked like the originals.

Here is how I converted forward facing drops to track drops on a 38 - 41 Schwinn.

I then lap welded cut off drops from a kids 20 inch bike to reinforce it.

 

[Palepainter]

The donor sidewinder. Have my eyes open for a cheap Mixte, but will likely pick up the steel and bend what I need. Going to do some studying prior to anything major, I have a few killer wheel sets waiting for the project. It’s on the short list after I finish this Haro Dart on the bench.

 

[us56456712]

The donor sidewinder. Have my eyes open for a cheap Mixte, but will likely pick up the steel and bend what I need. Going to do some studying prior to anything major, I have a few killer wheel sets waiting for the project. It’s on the short list after I finish this Haro Dart on the bench.
View attachment 185647

Looks like my shop, I hope you can find your parts better than I can.

 

[us56456712]

Today I started on the lateral assembly. It crept up to 35F today so I worked in my shop bare handed and in Crocks for shoes. Funny, if it was this cold in the summer I would have to wear boots and gloves. If I find an inexpensive mixte I’ll use that. In the meantime I’ll keep on fabricating the laterals. It’s so much easier using Huffy mixte laterals, easy to get the tubes parallel at the head tube and parallel with the stays.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

What hubs would you want to use? I know Phil Wood hubs are out of the question both availability and pricewise. Also non cassette clusters? Rims? Substitutes for any other components you do not have?
If only I would've known about mixte frames being so desirable 10 years ago. I had several come in with MX brakes and decent derailleurs. I stripped them and the frames are now 10 year old Toyotas and Chinese mopeds.
I hated the whole mixte frame idea. I would rather be emasculated the old fashioned way.
On the top bar.
I know. Blasphemy.
I do have some old 10 Speed and Mountain Bike parts laying around in a storage unit or two that I would part with reasonably to help with costs. If you let me know what you can use that is close enough to the original components I will see what I can do.
Rob
Report •••

 

[us56456712]

What hubs would you want to use? I know Phil Wood hubs are out of the question both availability and pricewise. Also non cassette clusters? Rims? Substitutes for any other components you do not have?
If only I would've known about mixte frames being so desirable 10 years ago. I had several come in with MX brakes and decent derailleurs. I stripped them and the frames are now 10 year old Toyotas and Chinese mopeds.
I hated the whole mixte frame idea. I would rather be emasculated the old fashioned way.
On the top bar.
I know. Blasphemy.
I do have some old 10 Speed and Mountain Bike parts laying around in a storage unit or two that I would part with reasonably to help with costs. If you let me know what you can use that is close enough to the original components I will see what I can do.
Rob
Report •••

Thank you very much. l’lI need a 350 mm or longer single bolt alloy seat post, I don’t know the diameter size as it’s +4F and windy so I’m staying away from my shop attic to check sizes. All my old single bolt alloy posts have missing pieces. I need an old style bottle cage with the plastic tip. I’ll need a front set of cantilever brake mounting blocks. I have no donor frames or forks left to cut these off of. Union all steel 9/16 pedals will be needed. I also need 36 hole hubs that are large hub diameter non tapered inside across the axle, flat tube across the axle like Phil Woods. I have a set of steel rims and some cheap steel hubs that are large across the hubs but flare at the ends so their not all flat like the Phil’s. This is the closest approximation to the Phil’s I have. The quality of the steel rims and hubs are like a Chinese Rolex. Araya steel rims were used on the Breezer 1, but many have been replaced with alloy. I also have a set of vintage Araya alloy hoops that could be spoked to the flatish hubs. You can buy Araya and Phil decals but my local sign shop can make them cheaper. The cassette cluster I use will depend on the drive ratio of my chainring. I the original small chainring was 26 tooth and mine is 28. TA 26 tooth chainrings are hard to come by. The original cassette was 13 x 26. I’ll have to check, but if my memory is right I’ll have to use 13 x 30 to get a similar drive. They were probably 6 speeds but I’ll have to check that to see what it was on the originals. I’ll need a new chain, headset, perhaps a bb, original tread tires and cables. I think I have everything else, B 72 seat, SA gooseneck, vintage motorcycle levers, grips, friction thumb shifters, derailleurs, MAFAC or other similar canti brakes. Before I invest any funds I want to finish brazing up the frame. If that’s ok then I’ll try and get the rest. I’m missing a front fork that looks like the old Cook Brothers unit, but I might get one locally on Monday for $20. The whole bike is $20, but the fork is all I want. It could be junk as I haven’t seen it yet. I have pedals that are similar to the Union ones so I could use those in a pinch. The ride quality would still be original using these pedals.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

I sent you a PM on a set of pedals.
I can come up with some cantilever blocks off an old frame.
I may have a bottle cage, I am not sure.
To be clear, you need the cluster that is pre assembled and screws onto the hub, correct? If so I have a few, I know I have a 6 speed cluster that may be what you need.
I will check my derailleurs and shifters, I had a brand new set of Suntour shifters I bought for spares but I will have to look for them.
Probably have some Suntour derailleurs if that is what you need.
I will check on hubs and other parts.
Bummer is I lost the building I was leasing for my bike museum project, the lessor went bankrupt and the contract holder had to repossess the property. I had about 2000 bikes and truckloads of parts. I had to sell almost all of it or it was going to be sent to scrap by the property owner. I hated losing those parts and the guy that bought it all took things he wasn't supposed to while I was watching his helpers, and I got pennies on the dollar to boot.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

I may have some older steel rims as well, I will check that also.

 

[us56456712]

I found Union pedals and hubs that are kinda like Phil’s. I really need cantilever blocks. I have shifters and derailleurs, but their cheap junk. SunTour parts would be great. I need a screw on 6 speed cluster, something like 14 - 28 or 30. I still need the old type of bottle cage, the only one I have has the plastic tip broken off. Here are the hubs, cheap heavy ball bearing steel. 100 mm front, 126 mm rear 36 hole drilling is what I need. Do you have anything thats a better imitator of the Phil hubs?

Yesterday, for $5, I bought a 20 inch bike that will donate the track style rear fork ends and the grips.

On Monday I found a $20 bike with good steel rims and the right fork. I need to spread the fork 5 - 6 mm and attach canti bosses. I still need to measure my seat post diameter.

I could start on the frame but it’s still cold so I think I’ll work on building wheels first.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

I had to put off going to the shed today, I had an emergency vet visit with one of my cats.
Going in tomorrow, I have to go to the store and get water.
I may have some hubs similar to the ones you want, I will check.
Rob

 

[us56456712]

I had to put off going to the shed today, I had an emergency vet visit with one of my cats.
Going in tomorrow, I have to go to the store and get water.
I may have some hubs similar to the ones you want, I will check.
Rob

Thanks. I’m not getting notices that people respond to any of my posts so I could miss some comments. This one didn’t appear.

 

[Oldbikeguy1960]

That is odd, maybe the Webmaster or administrator should look at that?