Hog Boys Boardtracker (Ex-Villiers)
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Re: Villiers board tracker HELP NEEDED!
Hey there guys.
I appreciate the input.
I only read your response now Beau, but I had already tryed that last night. The result was that I have minimal spin.
I think that the problem might be different.
Please read carefully what follows and gimme your opinion:
My centrifugal clutch has a spring or a long coil between the pulley and the block that holds the three pads that open when the rpm increases (red arrow: place where the coil is):
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I think that this is called a variable centrifugal clutch.
If you pull the right wall of the pulley hard enough, it will open, thus creating a larger gap for the rubber belt to fit in and also (this is my opinion) it will loosen it, maybe making it skid. I also think that this happens when the rpms go up.
What I'm thinkin is to buy a shorter belt that will fit the pulley at the highest poin of the right wall expansion.
this will get me two things: I'll make sure that it's not skiding and also it will reduce the ratio between the radius of the two pulleys.
What do you think?
Thanks a lot for helping and keep rollin'
PS - I'm getting closer to the point where I'll chop everything up and drive a direct chain to the rear sprocket. Boardtrack racer style
Hey there guys.
I appreciate the input.
I only read your response now Beau, but I had already tryed that last night. The result was that I have minimal spin.
I think that the problem might be different.
Please read carefully what follows and gimme your opinion:
My centrifugal clutch has a spring or a long coil between the pulley and the block that holds the three pads that open when the rpm increases (red arrow: place where the coil is):
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I think that this is called a variable centrifugal clutch.
If you pull the right wall of the pulley hard enough, it will open, thus creating a larger gap for the rubber belt to fit in and also (this is my opinion) it will loosen it, maybe making it skid. I also think that this happens when the rpms go up.
What I'm thinkin is to buy a shorter belt that will fit the pulley at the highest poin of the right wall expansion.
this will get me two things: I'll make sure that it's not skiding and also it will reduce the ratio between the radius of the two pulleys.
What do you think?
Thanks a lot for helping and keep rollin'
PS - I'm getting closer to the point where I'll chop everything up and drive a direct chain to the rear sprocket. Boardtrack racer style
Re: Villiers board tracker HELP NEEDED!
I'm thinking that if your pulley opens up wider where the belt runs, your clutch was probably originally set up as a torque-converter style arraingment? Where the front pulley reacts opposite to the rear pulley. Meaning as the RPM's increase, both pulleys have springs and weights that cause the front pulley to get narrower and the rear pulley to get wider. This transfers the gearing according to tha RPM's applied.
I'm thinking that if your pulley opens up wider where the belt runs, your clutch was probably originally set up as a torque-converter style arraingment? Where the front pulley reacts opposite to the rear pulley. Meaning as the RPM's increase, both pulleys have springs and weights that cause the front pulley to get narrower and the rear pulley to get wider. This transfers the gearing according to tha RPM's applied.
Re: Villiers board tracker HELP NEEDED!
CASHMAN!
You could'nt had said it better! Everything you say makes perfect sense.
On the scooter I got it from, the rear pulley reacted opposite to the front pulley.
And yes this was a torque-converter arrangement.
How can I solve this matter?
Thanks a lot and keep rollin'
cashman said:
CASHMAN!
You could'nt had said it better! Everything you say makes perfect sense.
On the scooter I got it from, the rear pulley reacted opposite to the front pulley.
And yes this was a torque-converter arrangement.
How can I solve this matter?
Thanks a lot and keep rollin'
Re: Villiers board tracker HELP NEEDED!
You might investigate mounting the front pulley from the moped on your engine crankshaft? Also the distance from the center line of the engine crankshaft to the centerline of the the rear pulley has to be equal to the distance found on the moped in order to use the original belt.
You might investigate mounting the front pulley from the moped on your engine crankshaft? Also the distance from the center line of the engine crankshaft to the centerline of the the rear pulley has to be equal to the distance found on the moped in order to use the original belt.
Re: Villiers board tracker HELP NEEDED!
Maybe a regular centrifugal mini bike type clutch is what you need to make everything work right.
Maybe a regular centrifugal mini bike type clutch is what you need to make everything work right.
Re: Villiers board tracker HELP NEEDED!
Thanks vey much for the input guys. I appreciate it.
Tonight I will try a centrifugal clutch that has about 1/3 less on the pulley's diametre and see what happens.
If it does'nt work I'll have to find that minibike clutch and attach it directly to the engine's shaft. Then Ill have to mount two sprockets on a shaft (sorry, don't know the correct term) to get alignment between the engine's shaft and the rear sprocket.. Damn...
thanks guys and keep rollin'
Thanks vey much for the input guys. I appreciate it.
Tonight I will try a centrifugal clutch that has about 1/3 less on the pulley's diametre and see what happens.
If it does'nt work I'll have to find that minibike clutch and attach it directly to the engine's shaft. Then Ill have to mount two sprockets on a shaft (sorry, don't know the correct term) to get alignment between the engine's shaft and the rear sprocket.. Damn...
thanks guys and keep rollin'
Re: Villiers board tracker BAD NEWS!
Guys..
I've got some bad news..
When finally there was a light at the end of the tunnel concerning the clutch issues, I started getting more and more trouble starting the engine: lots of white smoke comin from the exhaust pipe and the sparkplug was always darkened with oil and not delivering any spark, so I was always cleaning it.
At a point I notice oil coming out of the exhaust... OIL COMIN OUT OF THE EXHAUST! :shock: 
I guess the piston rings are busted...
What do you think?
Keep rollin'
Guys..
I've got some bad news..
When finally there was a light at the end of the tunnel concerning the clutch issues, I started getting more and more trouble starting the engine: lots of white smoke comin from the exhaust pipe and the sparkplug was always darkened with oil and not delivering any spark, so I was always cleaning it.
At a point I notice oil coming out of the exhaust... OIL COMIN OUT OF THE EXHAUST! :shock:
I guess the piston rings are busted...
What do you think?
Keep rollin'
Re: Villiers board tracker BAD NEWS!
could be as simple as a stuck ring. if the motor has set a long time without running, alot of times that can happen. don't sweat it yet, pull the motor apart and check the cylinder wall to look for scarring or gouging where oil may be getting past the rings. if that looks ok, then look at the rings and see if they are stuck. it may be as simple as a new set of rings, a good honing of the cylinder wall and away you go! the way i see it, everything is fixable!!!
could be as simple as a stuck ring. if the motor has set a long time without running, alot of times that can happen. don't sweat it yet, pull the motor apart and check the cylinder wall to look for scarring or gouging where oil may be getting past the rings. if that looks ok, then look at the rings and see if they are stuck. it may be as simple as a new set of rings, a good honing of the cylinder wall and away you go! the way i see it, everything is fixable!!!
Re: Villiers board tracker BAD NEWS!
Before you take the engine apart, check the crankcase breather. On most engines it's located behind the carburetor and attached to the side of the block. It could just be clogged up? You might have a local mechanic that could do a leak-down test to check the cylinder and the valve guides that would indicate wear in those areas with disassembling the engine.
Before you take the engine apart, check the crankcase breather. On most engines it's located behind the carburetor and attached to the side of the block. It could just be clogged up? You might have a local mechanic that could do a leak-down test to check the cylinder and the valve guides that would indicate wear in those areas with disassembling the engine.
Re: Villiers board tracker BAD NEWS!
very correct in checking and cleaning the breather if it is pluged you will end up with pressure in the crank case and the oil will end up going somewhere else. i doubt the rings are bad i have ran some with really bad rings and other than lower power it is not the end of the world. one cheap way to check the compression is bring it to tdc slowly and see how fast it leaks down you will feel it. i would pull the head and take a look at the cyl does not sound like a stuck ring since you already had it running. maybe a snapped ring if you are un-lucky. what engine is that anyways a briggs? start with the breather ohhhhh one other thing did you put oil in it recently if you over filled it this can happen. like did you fill and check it with the bike leaned to the side? hope this helps
very correct in checking and cleaning the breather if it is pluged you will end up with pressure in the crank case and the oil will end up going somewhere else. i doubt the rings are bad i have ran some with really bad rings and other than lower power it is not the end of the world. one cheap way to check the compression is bring it to tdc slowly and see how fast it leaks down you will feel it. i would pull the head and take a look at the cyl does not sound like a stuck ring since you already had it running. maybe a snapped ring if you are un-lucky. what engine is that anyways a briggs? start with the breather ohhhhh one other thing did you put oil in it recently if you over filled it this can happen. like did you fill and check it with the bike leaned to the side? hope this helps
Re: Villiers board tracker BAD NEWS!
Thanks very much for the input guys.
The engine is a 1950's 4 stroke Mk 15 Villiers, 147cc, able of delivering 2,5 hp at 3600 rpm. The carburetor is a Norton-Villiers.
I've been runnin the engine almost daily until the day before yesterday, when it started giving me those problems.
I've been carefull enough not to run it for long periods of time while stationary because of the cooling issues.
After reading your opinion this is what I'll do (a sequence till the end if the problem is not solved meanwhile):
1 - Check if oil level is not too high. I think not. It's new, put it myself but I'll check it anyway.
2 - Check free crankcase breather (is it a pierced nut screwed to the side of the engine with a ball bearing inside?).
3 - Take cil. head apart and check piston rings
4 - Check cil. wall for visible scratches
5 - Seek professional help (for me, not the engine )
What do you think?
Guys, thanks a lot.
BTW Karfer, what do you mean by "to check the compression is bring it to tdc slowly and see how fast it leaks down you will feel it"
What is tdc?
Thanks very much for the input guys.
The engine is a 1950's 4 stroke Mk 15 Villiers, 147cc, able of delivering 2,5 hp at 3600 rpm. The carburetor is a Norton-Villiers.
I've been runnin the engine almost daily until the day before yesterday, when it started giving me those problems.
I've been carefull enough not to run it for long periods of time while stationary because of the cooling issues.
After reading your opinion this is what I'll do (a sequence till the end if the problem is not solved meanwhile):
1 - Check if oil level is not too high. I think not. It's new, put it myself but I'll check it anyway.
2 - Check free crankcase breather (is it a pierced nut screwed to the side of the engine with a ball bearing inside?).
3 - Take cil. head apart and check piston rings
4 - Check cil. wall for visible scratches
5 - Seek professional help (for me, not the engine
)What do you think?
Guys, thanks a lot.
BTW Karfer, what do you mean by "to check the compression is bring it to tdc slowly and see how fast it leaks down you will feel it"
What is tdc?
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Re: Villiers board tracker BAD NEWS!
Top dead center . . . when the piston is at the highest point of it's travel in the cylinder. On a 4-stroke engine, the check that Karfer is talking about will be done on the compression stroke . . . that's when both, the intake and exhaust, valves are closed. Pull the spark plug, stick your finger on the hole, and turn the engine over a few times and you can feel the compression build up as the piston reaches TDC.stocksucks said:
Re: Villiers board tracker BAD NEWS!
Thanks Fireproof.
I'll check that tonight. It's allway very good to learn from you guys.
Anyway I dont think that total compression is absent. When starting the engine (by means of a rope and pulley), there is a point, that now I understand as the compression stage of the cycle, in wich the inertia of the crankshaft is high and followed by a "woosh" sound that resembles aspiration or exhaust, I can't tell.
What do you think?
Btw, congratulations on your father-daughter build. Lookin awsome.
Again, thanks a lot.
Thanks Fireproof.
I'll check that tonight. It's allway very good to learn from you guys.
Anyway I dont think that total compression is absent. When starting the engine (by means of a rope and pulley), there is a point, that now I understand as the compression stage of the cycle, in wich the inertia of the crankshaft is high and followed by a "woosh" sound that resembles aspiration or exhaust, I can't tell.
What do you think?
Btw, congratulations on your father-daughter build. Lookin awsome.
Again, thanks a lot.
Re: Villiers board tracker BAD NEWS!
comet torque-a-verter kit .. gives a constantly variable transmition and from the pic i saw you allready have half of the set .. to use that properly you need a jackshaft with the torque converter on one end and a sprocket to the wheel on the other ... like a snowmobile .. or 80's autoshift subaru justy
comet torque-a-verter kit .. gives a constantly variable transmition and from the pic i saw you allready have half of the set .. to use that properly you need a jackshaft with the torque converter on one end and a sprocket to the wheel on the other ... like a snowmobile .. or 80's autoshift subaru justy
Re: Villiers board tracker BAD NEWS!
Dravin, thanks a lot.
I took a look at the torque converters available on the internet and I could’nt understand what I’m missing.
I’ve got a pulley on the engine’s shaft running a belt to the centrifugal clutch, and the outter case of this centrifugal clutch has a sprocket that runs a chain to the wheel. I’m not experienced on these matters but I figured this assembly to be correct.
At a point I thought that this old 4 stroker just could’nt deliver enough rpm to this scooter clutch, but the clutch engages at 1800rpm and the engine delivers 2,5hp at 3600rpm. So it’s enough.
What am I missing here?
Also, I ran through all of the steps I announced yesterday concerning the engine’s problem. Everything seems allright. Oil level was OK, the bearing inside the pierced nut that screws to the engine block allowing the crank to breath was free, and there were no scratches on the cilinder wall.. I
The only thing I noticed was an enormous ammount of dirt surrounding the two valves, and I thought that maybe they were’nt able to shut properly.
I cleaned’em up.
But still, after some 30 pulls to the rope, I could’nt get more out of the engine than two hits and a puff of smoke. Could the carburetor be out of tune?
What do you guys think?
Thanks a lot and keep rollin’
Dravin, thanks a lot.
I took a look at the torque converters available on the internet and I could’nt understand what I’m missing.
I’ve got a pulley on the engine’s shaft running a belt to the centrifugal clutch, and the outter case of this centrifugal clutch has a sprocket that runs a chain to the wheel. I’m not experienced on these matters but I figured this assembly to be correct.
At a point I thought that this old 4 stroker just could’nt deliver enough rpm to this scooter clutch, but the clutch engages at 1800rpm and the engine delivers 2,5hp at 3600rpm. So it’s enough.
What am I missing here?
Also, I ran through all of the steps I announced yesterday concerning the engine’s problem. Everything seems allright. Oil level was OK, the bearing inside the pierced nut that screws to the engine block allowing the crank to breath was free, and there were no scratches on the cilinder wall.. I
The only thing I noticed was an enormous ammount of dirt surrounding the two valves, and I thought that maybe they were’nt able to shut properly.
I cleaned’em up.
But still, after some 30 pulls to the rope, I could’nt get more out of the engine than two hits and a puff of smoke. Could the carburetor be out of tune?
What do you guys think?
Thanks a lot and keep rollin’
Re: Villiers board tracker BAD NEWS!
if you have good spark on the plug, sounds like a carb issue. what does the plug look like after it doesn't start? wet with oil or fuel? is this a points/condensor motor or solid state?
if you have good spark on the plug, sounds like a carb issue. what does the plug look like after it doesn't start? wet with oil or fuel? is this a points/condensor motor or solid state?
Re: Villiers board tracker BAD NEWS!
Hey there. Thanks for helping me out.
The sparkplug is always wet and dark. I'm allways cleaning it up in order to get the motor to start. I cant tell if it's points/condensor or solid state .
It has a flywheel magneto, a switch and a spark plug..
Keep rollin'
Hey there. Thanks for helping me out.
The sparkplug is always wet and dark. I'm allways cleaning it up in order to get the motor to start. I cant tell if it's points/condensor or solid state
.It has a flywheel magneto, a switch and a spark plug..
Keep rollin'
Re: Villiers board tracker BAD NEWS!
Most likely got points and condenser under the flywheel. Might be a Wico or Phelan brand magneto. Could also be a Lucas as I've never laid eyes on a Villiers? If you've still got the cylinder head off, put the piston at the top of the stroke with both valves closed and see if the valves will rotate any by hand in the seats. They shoudn't in that position. If they do rotate, they are not sealing and probably have streatched or the valve seats or valve guides have worn.
Most likely got points and condenser under the flywheel. Might be a Wico or Phelan brand magneto. Could also be a Lucas as I've never laid eyes on a Villiers? If you've still got the cylinder head off, put the piston at the top of the stroke with both valves closed and see if the valves will rotate any by hand in the seats. They shoudn't in that position. If they do rotate, they are not sealing and probably have streatched or the valve seats or valve guides have worn.
Re: Villiers board tracker BAD NEWS!
Thanks cashman.
I'm not near the engine right now, but I recall that while I was cleaning it the valves rotated very easly. Is this normal?
Keep rollin'
Thanks cashman.
I'm not near the engine right now, but I recall that while I was cleaning it the valves rotated very easly. Is this normal?
Keep rollin'
