RRBO4 POLL
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I vote for one class...No frame modifications. And despite your worries, Steve, i thought last build off was absolutely amazing BECAUSE of this rule. You had several amazing bikes, with two polar opposites down to the wire for the win. Devilwing and Larry's beast showed the true spectrum of what can be done with a stock frame. Those who are not into welding will likely vote for clean representations, those who like heavy modifications will go that way. I thought it was actually very revealing and cool to see how the split came down amongst the voters....and at that point, we all won for having witnessed it all.!
Heck, one of the rules for last build off was "keep it ratty" - Devilwing was pretty glossed up for a rat. I loved the bike, my point is simply that there is so much interpretation WITHIN the "stock frame" guideline and this site's culture in general, who really needs full custom frames?
Thanks all for a great community! Good Luck!
Heck, one of the rules for last build off was "keep it ratty" - Devilwing was pretty glossed up for a rat. I loved the bike, my point is simply that there is so much interpretation WITHIN the "stock frame" guideline and this site's culture in general, who really needs full custom frames?
Thanks all for a great community! Good Luck!
Wow, talk about timing, I just hacked the frame on my Columbia trike figuring I couldn't use it in the buildoff and then this thread appears, WEEEEEEEE!
But looks like the votes ain't goin' my way, and that's just fine.
I'm not so much into the winning part of the buildoff's, it's more about the level of exposure. Many more people are going to view RRBO threads than a regular build thread.
So it looks like the trike gets to go in the good ol' Bike Builds, I've got a deadline (Ohio Bike Week) and if some one gets what I'm doing, that's good enough for me.
(Warning, post not to be taken too seriously.)
But looks like the votes ain't goin' my way, and that's just fine.
I'm not so much into the winning part of the buildoff's, it's more about the level of exposure. Many more people are going to view RRBO threads than a regular build thread.
So it looks like the trike gets to go in the good ol' Bike Builds, I've got a deadline (Ohio Bike Week) and if some one gets what I'm doing, that's good enough for me.
(Warning, post not to be taken too seriously.)
Well.... You know I actually feel bad. I knew I had caused issues during the build off and I really felt (and still do) that what I did was reasonable and inline with the rules. The only frame "mod" i did was to chop off the rear drop outs... And I only did that because I thought It looked better.. The bike could have functioned the same if I would have left them there. I didn't cut, move or change any part of the frame.... I did weld some things to it.... Anyway If I would have got booted out of the running It wouldn't have changed the direction of the bike. I was having fun and I like the way it ended up. I felt good about the bike... I worked hard on it... and It was a close race with lots of excellent competition.... Its not like Madd Hammer really walked away with a land slide... It was neck and neck back and forth and I only ended up with a couple more votes than Joey... It could have easily gone the other way.... And if it had would we even be having this discussion? Anyway... Enough about the past.
If you want my short answer.... Id leave it as no frame mods. I can tell you I worked much harder and thought a lot more about what I was building because of that. I think that's part of the challenge. Some people would say what I did was a "mod" frame and Im sure I could stir up a whole situation there as well.... What I will say is that it doesn't matter what kind of competition your in... The leaders are the people who are testing the rules.. Pushing to see what they can get away with and take it to the next level. Does that make it unfair? I dont think so. Everybody has the ability to use the gray matter between their ears and put forth their best effort. I didnt do what I did because I thought I would gain an unfair advantage over someone else. I did what I did because I saw it as a personal challenge. I thought... Lets see how crazy I can make this bike without chopping up the frame... can also tell you my next build wont be near so labor intensive. Madd Hammer was fun to build but my direction has changed.. I am interested in diffrent things and because of things I learned I want to go in other directions. Thats part of the beauty of this whole deal.
I would say if you start breaking the RRBO into classes... Where are you gonna stop? There is always going to be someone who thinks they are getting the short end of the stick. Thats my opinion... You may not like it, thats why you got your own.
I do think it would be fun to do a total custom build off (separate from RRBO). There are some really talented builders on this site and I think it would just be killer to see what comes out of it. I mean even the purists got to admit that would be a wonderful thing...
I am not sure I even want to build a bike for RRBO4.. And If I do I can almost guarantee that what I build wont win the popular vote. But that's kind of the point isn't it? To build what you want regardless of what other people think?
If you want my short answer.... Id leave it as no frame mods. I can tell you I worked much harder and thought a lot more about what I was building because of that. I think that's part of the challenge. Some people would say what I did was a "mod" frame and Im sure I could stir up a whole situation there as well.... What I will say is that it doesn't matter what kind of competition your in... The leaders are the people who are testing the rules.. Pushing to see what they can get away with and take it to the next level. Does that make it unfair? I dont think so. Everybody has the ability to use the gray matter between their ears and put forth their best effort. I didnt do what I did because I thought I would gain an unfair advantage over someone else. I did what I did because I saw it as a personal challenge. I thought... Lets see how crazy I can make this bike without chopping up the frame... can also tell you my next build wont be near so labor intensive. Madd Hammer was fun to build but my direction has changed.. I am interested in diffrent things and because of things I learned I want to go in other directions. Thats part of the beauty of this whole deal.
I would say if you start breaking the RRBO into classes... Where are you gonna stop? There is always going to be someone who thinks they are getting the short end of the stick. Thats my opinion... You may not like it, thats why you got your own.
I do think it would be fun to do a total custom build off (separate from RRBO). There are some really talented builders on this site and I think it would just be killer to see what comes out of it. I mean even the purists got to admit that would be a wonderful thing...
I am not sure I even want to build a bike for RRBO4.. And If I do I can almost guarantee that what I build wont win the popular vote. But that's kind of the point isn't it? To build what you want regardless of what other people think?
while following the last build off i remember thinking to myself (on a few different occasions)
mountain bike frame-doesn't stand a chance, that ones not old enough to win,that ones not rare enough to win, etc etc.
the rules are definatly stacked, but stacked infavor of those with big wallets or a large selection of old bikes/parts to choose from.
and yet, those who can only find modern frames keep playing. (you go guys!) and do a dam fine job sometimes.
yes honey said it best, ya need to like your bike when your finished. myself i like modifing old frames, show casing vintage pieces with a new flair. its what i do, its what i like. its rat rodding to me.
if i follow the rules, i end up with a bike that isn't really my style. a trailor queen or bike built for one purpose and one purpose alone, the build off. what fun is that? its not what i'm about, and the reason i've never competed in the past. i make my bikes for me. and have limited $$$$.old cheap junker frames and alittle gas pipe., using what i got, to make what i need. my selection of tools suck, i borrow a friends welder (clear across the city) i mean, to me it couldn't get anymore rattier.
by the looks of the pole theres others in the same vote. those that would like to play, but aren't into changing there style for the purpose of a bbo. they build, post daily,inspire us and yet you exclude them when it comes time for the build off.
have you guys looked at the build threads lately? i'd say 50% of the posts have modified frames.
anything goes, would allow EVERYBODY to do what they want and stay true to thier style.
i've never said to anybody on this forum, "your bikes not a rat rod" but i'm getting the feeling theres alot of peeps sitting behind thier computer thinking "that bikes not a rat rod, the frames not original"
trouble is
a few of us are saying it should be "build what ya want, anything goes!" (with a rat rod styling of course)
while others are saying "build what i want, or don't bother playing." the choice has always been clear. i just don't bother playing. as yeshoney stated whats the point in building a bike ya probably wont ride? its the modified frames that get all the road time at my place. (ratty lowriders)
guess i'll just keep makin my kinda rat rods.
my computer skills suck! and a bbo is not something i could even contemplate running (lots of props for the past 3 bbo's, i really appreciate the effort)
i love to carve old guitars,paint sculpt, make damascus knives etc etc)
i'd be willing to donate similar bbo themed, hand crafted prizes (cause i dont have alot of money) , if somebody would host an anything goes build off.
i think it would be a huge success for everybody on rrb.(obviously i wouldn't be competing, that hardly seems fair) i'm just egar to see what everybody would do if you remove the restraints
mountain bike frame-doesn't stand a chance, that ones not old enough to win,that ones not rare enough to win, etc etc.
the rules are definatly stacked, but stacked infavor of those with big wallets or a large selection of old bikes/parts to choose from.
and yet, those who can only find modern frames keep playing. (you go guys!) and do a dam fine job sometimes.
yes honey said it best, ya need to like your bike when your finished. myself i like modifing old frames, show casing vintage pieces with a new flair. its what i do, its what i like. its rat rodding to me.
if i follow the rules, i end up with a bike that isn't really my style. a trailor queen or bike built for one purpose and one purpose alone, the build off. what fun is that? its not what i'm about, and the reason i've never competed in the past. i make my bikes for me. and have limited $$$$.old cheap junker frames and alittle gas pipe., using what i got, to make what i need. my selection of tools suck, i borrow a friends welder (clear across the city) i mean, to me it couldn't get anymore rattier.
by the looks of the pole theres others in the same vote. those that would like to play, but aren't into changing there style for the purpose of a bbo. they build, post daily,inspire us and yet you exclude them when it comes time for the build off.
have you guys looked at the build threads lately? i'd say 50% of the posts have modified frames.
anything goes, would allow EVERYBODY to do what they want and stay true to thier style.
i've never said to anybody on this forum, "your bikes not a rat rod" but i'm getting the feeling theres alot of peeps sitting behind thier computer thinking "that bikes not a rat rod, the frames not original"
trouble is
a few of us are saying it should be "build what ya want, anything goes!" (with a rat rod styling of course)
while others are saying "build what i want, or don't bother playing." the choice has always been clear. i just don't bother playing. as yeshoney stated whats the point in building a bike ya probably wont ride? its the modified frames that get all the road time at my place. (ratty lowriders)
guess i'll just keep makin my kinda rat rods.
my computer skills suck! and a bbo is not something i could even contemplate running (lots of props for the past 3 bbo's, i really appreciate the effort)
i love to carve old guitars,paint sculpt, make damascus knives etc etc)
i'd be willing to donate similar bbo themed, hand crafted prizes (cause i dont have alot of money) , if somebody would host an anything goes build off.
i think it would be a huge success for everybody on rrb.(obviously i wouldn't be competing, that hardly seems fair) i'm just egar to see what everybody would do if you remove the restraints
Icy aren't you in a "Build Off" right now, on FBN.....That site has full customs or modification builds. Your War Machine is featured here and there...........So WE have sites we can go to for FULL custom build offs!.......Try going there and talking them into a STOCK bike build off :lol: :lol: :lol: If anything have a seperate, maybe autumn build off, ANYTHING goes.
KOTA said:
sure am, but i spend way more time here. i'd already started the bike before i saw the build off, timing was right and there a great bunch of peeps. figured i'd throw it in there and try to inspire a couple.
honestly, my take on the anything goes build off, is not about me and my build. i wanna see what everybody else will do with the change of rules.
never once has the thought of even having a chance to win crossed my mind. i just wanna see as many peeps as possible have a chance to show thier style without the limitations of what others think a rat rod bike is or isn't
icyuod2 said:
I think there is alot of truth to that. I really like to see what others do. Its why I spend time on this or any other forum in the first place.. Its not to show you guys my stuff... But to see what every one else is up to. I still feel that there should be two separate build offs though. Keep the RRBO what it is. You cant tailor a competition to the entrants.. You have to make the entrants comply with the competition. Its been a success and drawn a lot of attention. In my mind its not about being "fair" to anyone or about having better access to tools or bikes. Look at Fat Frank... Or the Retro Racer... Both top notch custom builds and neither one had more than basic tools. There is no way to level the playing field, nor should it be leveled if it could be. Life is like that.
You could argue that If you start trying to "control" art... It is no longer art. But I think rather than pure "art" this is a competition... it should be open to all and any skill levels and direction. It should have criteria to follow that's easy to understand. Start with a frame, Dont change the "frame" part of the frame... Do what ever else you want to make it what you think it should be... Every competition has rules.. Thats part of what makes it a competition and being a competition is part of what makes it fun. Do you think the go fast guys at the salt flats get to do what ever they want? (well some do but only a few) No... They have restrictions and requirements. Its a "here are the rules, now show us what you can do" deal.... Do you think making a rule thats says you cant weld anything to the frame would change anything for an accomplished fabricator? I can tell you right now I could have built Madd Hammer with some elaborate fabricated bolt on parts and not changed the look one bit.. Probably made it cooler...
I do understand what icyuod2 is saying.. And I agree that it would be a lot of fun and open up huge doors to have a free for all ratrod build off. But I still think to open up the RBBO to a "anything goes" would be the wrong direction. So my vote would not really be two classes... But two build offs... maybe the free for all during the winter months..
I dunno..... At a more basic level I can see that whats important is the "art" and allowing people to build what they want without any restrictions is art in its purest form..... So is it about the bikes or about the competition? I say it its about the RRBO leave it the RRBO..... If its about art then have a free for all.....
i like the idea of two classes. this year i may participate in the RRBO, but us little guys without access to unlimited tubing and welding equiptment would get skunked by some of the truely talented custom frame builders, and like mentioned before it keeps it more grass roots to keep the frame customizing in its own class. you could call the two classes old school and outlaw unlimited for the anything goes frame customizers. more fun for everyone.
While I respect your opinion as the "no mod" rule cramps one's creative style, I think it can actually expand your style. The bike below is an example of this.icyuod2 said:
Tikikarl's Black and Tan bike is one of my favs. One simple change to the MTB frame that changed the whole look to the bike.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5363&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=black+tan
I almost withdrew from the last build off simply because of the direction my boardtracker was taking. There was no real set plan as far as paint went, I just winged it all the way, making paint work with the colored parts I had at hand.
I stayed in the build even though the bike was too "glossy" and polished (imho) to be a true "rat", but just because you guys seemed to be digging it. 8)
Realistically, I know I wasnt going to win, and winning wasn't really what it was all about anyway. I was having a blast just watching what directions you all went in with what you had.
Last year, I didnt own a welder, this year I do. Will it make a difference it what type of bike I build ? Probably, in some cases, because now I've the freedom to chop at will without worrying about how i'm going to bolt it back together.
Would having 2 classes to enter make any difference? Dunno :?
I know I will go by whatever rules Steve lays out, should I enter, and still build whatever bike I want to build, whenever I want to. Heck, i'll even share with you guys n gals, even if I build something other than a rat, cause this is the best board on the web, with the best management and members there could be.
Thats what keeps me coming back day in and day out. Not the build offs.
'Nuff said.
Rick
P.S, Sorry Steve, I didn't vote on the poll. Not because I don't want to help out, simply because i'm more than happy to play by your rules any day of the week.
I stayed in the build even though the bike was too "glossy" and polished (imho) to be a true "rat", but just because you guys seemed to be digging it. 8)
Realistically, I know I wasnt going to win, and winning wasn't really what it was all about anyway. I was having a blast just watching what directions you all went in with what you had.
Last year, I didnt own a welder, this year I do. Will it make a difference it what type of bike I build ? Probably, in some cases, because now I've the freedom to chop at will without worrying about how i'm going to bolt it back together.
Would having 2 classes to enter make any difference? Dunno :?
I know I will go by whatever rules Steve lays out, should I enter, and still build whatever bike I want to build, whenever I want to. Heck, i'll even share with you guys n gals, even if I build something other than a rat, cause this is the best board on the web, with the best management and members there could be.
Thats what keeps me coming back day in and day out. Not the build offs.
'Nuff said.
Rick
P.S, Sorry Steve, I didn't vote on the poll. Not because I don't want to help out, simply because i'm more than happy to play by your rules any day of the week.
i swear this is the last i will say anything on this topic :shock:
if you have a bike that you want to build but feel confined by rules of a build off..........
the bike build section was created for this purpose!
there really isnt anything that cant go there :mrgreen:
weve all seen full customs,burritos,stretchs,restos,modifieds,bolt ons ,gender changes,style changes,low riders,clunkers,fixies,swing bikes,high $ and no $,etc,etc,etc,etc.........
personally thats where i plan on keeping my builds..........as the inventor of 'the code' said.........
everyday is a build off :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
that said ive got some work to do............
if you have a bike that you want to build but feel confined by rules of a build off..........
the bike build section was created for this purpose!
there really isnt anything that cant go there :mrgreen:
weve all seen full customs,burritos,stretchs,restos,modifieds,bolt ons ,gender changes,style changes,low riders,clunkers,fixies,swing bikes,high $ and no $,etc,etc,etc,etc.........
personally thats where i plan on keeping my builds..........as the inventor of 'the code' said.........
everyday is a build off :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
that said ive got some work to do............
