Hog Boys Boardtracker (Ex-Villiers)

[Dowie Soetenga]

Re: Villiers board tracker WILL BE SET ON FIRE!

Thanks for all the input guys.
I'm gonna try to drive a direct chain from the cent clutch to the wheel.
I've spent a bit of money on this and I'm allways aiming at using things that lay around. Also, I'm thinking of buying a V2 engine for a next build so I've gotta save...

As you know, I've got a 10 teeth sprocket on the clutch an a 44 teeth sprocket on the wheel. Ratio 4.4
What do you think?
Thanks a lot

You're going to need a jack shaft for your four stroke engine. Your ratio should be closer to 10:1. 4.4:1 is way off. If you were running a two stroke, high rpm motor, you can get away with a direct drive clutch to rear sprocket. Your clutch engages around 2,300 rpm and your top rpm will be around 4,200 rpm. Trust me. With a 26" wheel, and a small four stroke engine, you want a ratio around 10:1. I'm not just talking, I've actually built it.

Buy this 5/8" jack shaft kit for $29.00. It includes everything you need including the high rpm bearings.
http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/AZ1826-10.html

Buy a 9T or 10T, 5/8" bore bicycle sprocket here for $15.00.
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/pr ... kf5ma15ou2

Buy a #35 28T, 5/8" bore sprocket here for $24.00
http://www.mcmastercarr.com
Part number 6236K108

Run a #35 chain on your left clutch side. You can buy #35 chain from http://www.mcmastercarr.com
If you bought a #41 chain clutch, trade it in for a #35 chain clutch. This will keep your sprockets smaller on the left side of your bike.
Run a .500" pitch bicycle chain on your right hand side.

You will be up and running in about $70.00 and two hours of fabricating.

This is what it will look like, only you will have a sprocket on the left and right side of your crank.

 

[stocksucks]

Re: Villiers board tracker WILL BE SET ON FIRE!

Dowie, I can't thank you enough for all of this homework and research. You were really helpfull gathering all of this info and I saw your setup on your btr build on the signature - great job, congratulations.

But please answer this: how could I reach 33mph with my previous assembly? (it was the previous one that you suggested that I should upgrade with 26 teeth on the 2nd sprocket)

Don't loose you patience but what if I ran, say, 14 or 16 teeth on the clutch?

I'm asking this because, altough 70 usd is'nt a lot of money, I still have to pay shipment to portugal and costumes (correct spelling?) fees..

Thank you very much again.

 

[Dowie Soetenga]

Re: Villiers board tracker WILL BE SET ON FIRE!

Dowie, I can't thank you enough for all of this homework and research. You were really helpfull gathering all of this info and I saw your setup on your btr build on the signature - great job, congratulations.

But please answer this: how could I reach 33mph with my previous assembly? (it was the previous one that you suggested that I should upgrade with 26 teeth on the 2nd sprocket)

Don't loose you patience but what if I ran, say, 14 or 16 teeth on the clutch?

I'm asking this because, altough 70 usd is'nt a lot of money, I still have to pay shipment to portugal and costumes (correct spelling?) fees..

Thank you very much again.

I don't doubt that you hit 33 mph, but the power band of the motor could be optimized with a larger sprocket. The power band of your four stroke motor is 3,600 rpm to around 4,200 rpm.

Typically your clutch will only have either 10T or 12T. Just a 2T difference in your clutch will change your speed by around 5 mph. However, a 6T to 8T increase in your jackshaft input sprocket does around 7 - 10 mph. Your best bet is to stick with a 10T or 12T on your clutch and a 44T or 46T on your rear wheel. Then play with your jackshaft input sprocket. Your jackshaft output sprocket should be 9T or 10T, The jackshaft input sprocket (motor side) could be anywhere from 20T to 28T, to achieve the speed you want. For your engine I would reccomend the 26T or 28T. This is a good power to speed ratio.

Using a #35 12T clutch this is what your speeds would be by changing your jackshaft input sprocket.

28T = 27.5 mph
26T = 29.6 mph
24T = 32 mph
22T = 35 mph
20T = 38.5 mph

 

[stocksucks]

Re: Villiers board tracker WILL BE SET ON FIRE!

Dowie, your diagram is really explicyt: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=32559&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30, and very well concieved. If things don't work out like I'm aimin, I'll have to find that jackshaft you kindly posted.
I'll have news for you guys 'till the end of the week.
Thanks a lot and keep rollin'

 

[ozzmonaut]

Re: Villiers board tracker WILL BE SET ON FIRE!

I have been checking out this thread, as I am about to embark on a similar journey. Frame welding and mods are no issue. My concern is with the drivetrain. I am beginning with a 1984 Briggs 3hp motor, which was also a water pump motor. The engine runs, idles, and accelerates well, although I may be upgrading the carb a bit, as well as exhaust. It has a keyed shaft, so use of a minibike style clutch will work. Is the use of the jackshaft kit mentioned above neccessary? Is it mainly for alignment purposes? I was planning on welding my motor mounts in to the frame with them aligned further to the right, bringing the shaft in closer on the left. Then welding a sprocket directly to the rear rim. But if the jackshaft kit is adjustable at both sprockets , then it would be a better setup as you could finetune adjustments, since the first way you put something together is almost never the BEST way.

 

[stocksucks]

Re: Villiers board tracker WILL BE SET ON FIRE!

You're right ozzmonaut. Things keep gettin improved.
I think that you should go with the jackshaft. It's not only the allignment issue, but also the possibility to play with a larger number of sprockets, thus changing your gear ratios and making the best out of your engine (see Dowie Soetenga's input). You can also go with the torque-a-verter (see cobrafreak's input)
If you asked for my advice on the drive train i'd say plan things. Draw your bike, get plans on similar stuff on the web and hear what the guys in the "bikes with motors" section have said on their builds.
Also it is important to have all the main parts (engine, clutch, shaft, etc) before cutting and welding, so that you can try and plan everything.
Have fun and remember never to use BMX bearings on your shaft
As soon as you start keep us posted, ok?
Keep rollin

 

[Dowie Soetenga]

Re: Villiers board tracker WILL BE SET ON FIRE!

You're right ozzmonaut. Things keep gettin improved.
I think that you should go with the jackshaft. It's not only the allignment issue, but also the possibility to play with a larger number of sprockets, thus changing your gear ratios and making the best out of your engine (see Dowie Soetenga's input). You can also go with the torque-a-verter (see cobrafreak's input)
If you asked for my advice on the drive train i'd say plan things. Draw your bike, get plans on similar stuff on the web and hear what the guys in the "bikes with motors" section have said on their builds.
Also it is important to have all the main parts (engine, clutch, shaft, etc) before cutting and welding, so that you can try and plan everything.
Have fun and remember never to use BMX bearings on your shaft
As soon as you start keep us posted, ok?
Keep rollin

Advice from someone who's built more than a few non-kit gas powered machines: (built from scratch)

1) Do your math. Calculate your speed from your engine hitting it's midrange and top rpm. For a four stroke it's around 2,000 rpm (clutch engagement) to around 4,200 rpm. 3,600 rpm is a typical midrange, or a good cruising speed.

2) Do your math again. Figure out all your sprocket ratios within a few teeth before you even start. If you don't you will be chasing your tail for a long time.

3) Always use a jackshaft for four stroke motors. Buy precison sealed jackshaft bearings that are rated for high rpm. If you don't, the bearings will destroy themselves. A jackshaft makes it very easy to change out two sprockets as well. This is helpful in dialing in your machine.

Also, a torque-a-verter is way too big to put on a bicycle. It can be done, but not necessary. They are also designed for standard 6.5HP or larger four stroke engines. They are really designed for larger gas powered machines that are heavy, and have significant space within the frame.

However, this is still and awesome build (stocksucks)! I am impressed!

 

[harry76]

Re: Villiers board tracker WILL BE SET ON FIRE!

Sorry to hijack this thread but Dowie, you sound like you know about this. Im building a 2 stroke Villiers bike, i havent been able to find out the stats for this motor, the most i found was on a youtube video which claimed they made 1hp @ 2000rpm (rpm figure could be wrong as i havent got it written down). But im guessing that isnt the maximum rpm range...... so how do i go about entering rpm range into the calculator? Any help is greatly appreciated..

 

[harry76]

Re: Villiers board tracker WILL BE SET ON FIRE!

Correction: i read they make 1 hp @ 2700rpm.....

Hope you get this thing back on the road soon, i was looking forward to a video of you riding it.....

 

[stocksucks]

Re: Villiers board tracker

Ya will Harry.
Soon. Thing are gettin brighter now

This guy will answer to your questions about the Villiers: Colin Wright [email protected]
Also you can download the manual for the engine on http://www.internalfire.com/index.php?l ... 556e967aa2

Keep it up

 

[stocksucks]

Re: Villiers board tracker

Hey there
As I said earlier, the Villiers boardtrack racer had an “issue” with the jackshaft that allowed for a correct allignement between the sprocket on the engine’s shaft and the sprocket on the rear wheel. Using regular bmx bearings did’nt work as they were busted on the first glorious 30ish mph test run… With them, so did the threads on the shaft and the metal “bed” that recieves the bearings got busted.
I was mad, and had to look for a way out or the bike was in serious danger of gettin’ destroyed, Monster Garage style!
So I chopped off the bottom part of the frame, made a new one, lower, and made new engine stands that allow the chain to go directly from the centrifugal clutch’s 10 teeth sprocket to the 44 teeth rear wheel sprocket.
The frame now stands 2 inches off the ground at the lowest point. It’s not a frame loop because the oil sump is not round:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Today I’ll make a new brake lever and have a test run… hopefully.
Meanwhile, on Friday, the engine had an accident: it fell (!!!) from my working bench. Everything seems to be ok from the outside, but I’ll only believe that when it gets runnin’.
Thanks for watching.
Keep rollin’
PS – Good luck for eveyone joinin’ the RRB #6 build off

 

[harry76]

Re: Villiers board tracker

Man i love this bike!!!!!

 

[stocksucks]

Re: Villiers board tracker

Thanks Harry.
I think that this last mod became an improvement, but, on the other hand, making the engine sit lower leaves a hole above, and I'm not sure I like it.
I made the frame similar to an original HD boardtrackracer, and forgot that these beasts ran on a 1000cc Vtwin engines that filled the entire space in the frame.
If you have'nt yet, please take a look at the video on the bottom of this page: http://sportsmanflyer.blogspot.com/sear ... %20History
Coolest thing I ever saw, bike-wise!

 

[harry76]

Re: Villiers board tracker

IMO you need to see the tank on before you decide if you like it. I still think it looks good with the motor lower. You may always be able to fill the gap with a big fuel filter or faux oil pump or something. Plus having the motor lower is gonna help the handling of the bike. I think it looks awesome!

 

[stocksucks]

Re: Villiers board tracker

Yep..
I have already got something in mind for the the engine cover that I took off.
Have you seen the video on the link I sent?

 

[ozzmonaut]

Re: Villiers board tracker

So you won't even be using the jackshaft?

 

[stocksucks]

Re: Villiers board tracker

So you won't even be using the jackshaft?

No ozz, I'm gonna try 10 teeth to 44 straight, and see.
If it does'nt work, I'm gonna follow Dowie's lead (see previous posts) and get a proper jackshaft.
Keep rollin'

 

[2dawgs]

Re: Villiers board tracker

I think you will be fine with the 10T to 44T; many MB's use this set up whether it's 4 or 2 Stroke.

This is the coolest BTR I have ever seen; and I have seen alot of them.

 

[harry76]

Re: Villiers board tracker

Yeah i had seen that once before but any excuse to look at some beautiful BTR. I bet that 1911 Indian in original condition would be worth a small fortune. And how nice and loud do those Indians sound? To quote Joe Rogan "sounds like war". Awesome!!!!

 

[ozzmonaut]

Re: Villiers board tracker

So you won't even be using the jackshaft?

No ozz, I'm gonna try 10 teeth to 44 straight, and see.
If it does'nt work, I'm gonna follow Dowie's lead (see previous posts) and get a proper jackshaft.
Keep rollin'

That was my original plan before I saw all of the jackshaft info. I was planning on using a slightly smaller sprocket in the rear though. The main thing I need to do is figure out what I'm going to do for hubs that will actually handle the speed.